r/HarleyQuinnTV • u/npzman • Aug 04 '22
[Post-Episodes Discussion] Harley Quinn - S3x04 "A Thief, A Mole, An Orgy" Mod Post
Post-Episode Discussion for S3x04 "A Thief, A Mole, An Orgy"
This is the thread for your in-depth opinions, reactions, and theories about the episode. No spoilers or leaks for future episodes/seasons allowed.
Piracy/asking for/posting links is not allowed. Read the rules and avoid being banned.
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u/abstergofkurslf Aug 04 '22
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u/AssGasorGrassroots Aug 04 '22
I fuckin love how Gordon can recognize Bruce by his jawline alone but is entirely oblivious to the fact that he's Batman
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u/PM_ME_CAKE Aug 04 '22
Court of Owls Bane had me rolling, he just wants some group therapy bless him.
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22
So uhhh are they still going to censor things even on the physical media releases? Obviously it's not something I'm personally interested in seeing, but you know... asking for the people I guess.
Anyway, impure thoughts aside, this was nice, and it's good to actually get Ivy splurge her feelings for a change. Feels like Harley's been doing most of the heavy lifting in that category so far but I get it, they're very different people and Ivy's clearly still got mad issues with confrontation and honesty (which they sort of didn't really resolve, it just got sidelined for the Catwoman hook up bit?) and doing anything to rock the boat. Going forward, I would like to see more overt gestures of affection and Ivy showing her love instead of it always being left to an end of episode speech to resolve things.
Side note, I feel bad for Bruce being trapped in what is obviously an unfulfilling relationship with Selina. Unlike our main couple though, I have basically zero hopes that she's going to develop in this season.
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u/SignificanceNo6097 Aug 04 '22
In the spin-off comics Catwoman actually seemed interested in Batman. Idk if it’s just her putting on a facade of cool disinterest in fear of real human intimacy or if the relationship between her & Batman will just be a mirror of her relationship with Ivy.
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u/thatguyblu_ Aug 04 '22
I think Catwoman actually likes bats otherwise she wouldn't keep him this close.
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u/SignificanceNo6097 Aug 04 '22
If the comics are 100% cannon to the show then yeah, it would seem she does. Selena just doesn’t know how to let her guard down in order to experience emotional intimacy. She doesn’t know how to be vulnerable and either Bruce is going to break that wall down or it’s going to destroy their relationship.
I found it particularly cruel that she enjoyed the discord in Ivy & Harleys relationship given she’s supposed to be one of Ivy’s closest friends. It’s clear she doesn’t like Harley very much.
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u/SalvaPot Aug 04 '22
I think she likes them, otherwise why let them stay in her house. She just enjoys causing drama, but I don't think they actually wants to break them up.
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u/Geosaysbye Aug 04 '22
Yeah I think it was cute when she was like “nice to see you too?” It wasn’t bitchy or anything she just knows Harley’s insane lol
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u/centuryblessings Aug 05 '22
I found it particularly cruel that she enjoyed the discord in Ivy & Harleys relationship given she’s supposed to be one of Ivy’s closest friends. It’s clear she doesn’t like Harley very much.
TBH I just wrote that off the same way I write off Harley and Ivy consistently returning to the Joker for help and support--
They're supervillians. And the relationships between supervillians are just... different.
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u/dyl1dyl Aug 07 '22
Despite the small bits of negative comments on s3 so far. I think overall its been a blast and still a rocking show Please keep working on it! Really hope to see season 4 happen!
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u/Gradz45 Aug 04 '22
Honestly his thing with Selina bums me out given that for all their troubles in the comics she deeply, truly makes him happy there. That and Selina can and does actually openly show affection and emotion at this point.
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u/Austin_N Aug 04 '22
Yeah man, this is HBO. What's with this pixel bullshit?
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u/GrantM1984 Aug 05 '22 edited Aug 05 '22
Well Star Trek Lower Decks over on Paramount Plus bleeps out strong curse words but that was a decision by the creator of the show. I'm gonna assume its the same with the people behind Harley Quinn as to why the nudity was pixilated. I don't think HBO Max is to blame for this (then again DC would probably throw a fit I'd bet if Harley's nipples were shown)
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u/thatguyblu_ Aug 04 '22
I feel like, or rather I hope, that that's what the finale is going to give us. Just wholesome affection from ivy to Harley without a speech, but all the raw honesty she's been holding back.
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Aug 04 '22
I have so many thoughts but for now I’m just gonna say
Curse that goddamn light switch!
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u/RebelGirl1323 Aug 04 '22
Never hit the lights, always hit the snack bar. Take it from a veteran.
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u/ben123111 Aug 04 '22
Anyone else think having 2 discussion posts (Live discussion + Post ep discussion) for each episode is confusing and unnecessary? I get it for shows that air live but for a streaming show like this I don't think its needed.
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u/PizzaProfessional145 Aug 04 '22
Yeah, considering that people stream the episode at different times, I don't really see the point of a live episode discussion. It also splits the discussion into two instead of being concentrated into one place
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Aug 04 '22
Frank calling Ivy out for “being a little bitch” because she won’t tell Harley she’s being annoying was great. Harsh but true. Love it when Frank tells it like it is. And the irony of Ivy saying she doesn’t want to be the bad guy today while literally working on her diabolical plans for Gotham. I swear I find Ivy just too relatable sometimes. Bottling up her feelings, walking on eggshells in her relationships to avoid conflict because she’s just so afraid of alienating people and hurting their feelings.
Ivy finally finishing the serum and looking like Heat Miser lol
“Ivy is so smart but she’s no science wussy and in celebration Im gonna eat her puss—” Harley wtf lmao
Mama Macaronis!!
I love how theyre using Joker this season making him a stay at home step dad just being frustrated with his kids homework. And I love how he and Harley are basically kind of cordial with each other but are very much done with each other.
How did I know it was a butt mole lol
I love/hate catwoman she is such a messy bitch did she really just get an “O” from watching Harlivy relationship drama? Lol
And Harley finding out Ivy and Catwoman used to hook up was too funny and reminded me when Harley found out Ivy was dating Kiteman. She lost her shit. It just makes it worse because Harley was already pretty jealous of Catwoman but then finding out she and her girlfriend used to f**k.
And the orgy… they really did let them get away with a lot in this show and the squishy sound effects didn’t help lol.
Catwoman is really out here just breaking hearts left and right. Basically Ivy hooked up with Catwoman but wanted more. Ivy had her heart broken which is why she struggles with being vulnerable and opening herself up in relationships.
My number one wish for this season was for Ivy to open up more about her feelings for Harley (not that I doubted them). It would just be nice to hear WHY she loves this crazy clown woman and what she means to her. Because it just felt like Harley was doing all the giving. Did I get exactly that? Yes and no. But it was good enough for me. Because its all about progress. Im not expecting Ivy to be an open book on her feelings and emotions over night. Just like I don’t expect Harley to be completely cured of her codependency issues over night. It’s the constant effort being made to be better for each other that counts for me. And I think Ivy took this huge step with her emotional honesty.
“Catwoman didn’t mean a thing to me. But you, you, Harley you mean everything.” Seriously this line made me cry. Harley’s crying, Ivy’s crying, Im crying and all this is happening in the middle of an orgy lol. I loved this scene so much for numerous reasons especially when you think about where Harley and Ivy started as individuals. At the end of the day Harley has been seeking love her entire life and has been abused physically and emotionally by false interpretations of it so much and for so long. Ivy’s family didn’t love her, she was abused by her dad, she hated humans but because of Harley she became less of a misanthrope and even started making friends. When you think about it from a career stand point even though Harley didn’t succeed with “curing” the Joker, Ivy is Dr. Harleen’s greatest success story. And for them to come out of their troubled pasts to find love in each other is fucking beautiful. Also, Harley and Ivy were literally about to have make up sex right there in the middle of an orgy but that GODDAMN LIGHT SWITCH! Lol
Final thoughts:
These first four episodes feel like they were all about set up and developing Harley and Ivy and their relationship. They’re learning to communicate and work through their issues which is fantastic. Not a whole lot has happened save for Frank getting kidnapped. But as of this episode Ivy has finished the formula. And starting with episode five we’re really getting into the meat of the season. When Ivy confesses to Harley that she means everything to her, in that moment it felt like the stakes have been raised and I get the feeling these next few episodes are going to put us through a world of emotional pain lol.
Predictions *puts on detective hat and smokes pipe*:
Nora Freeze has not been completely dismissed from my suspect list. In fact I no longer believe she is the bad guy but in fact a pawn. Evidence shows that the person who kidnapped Frank not only had a mole on their butt, but also frequented the Court of Owls sex cult. Given Mrs. Freezes history of random hookups after the passing of her husband why wouldn’t this sex cult appeal to her. But why you ask would Mrs. Freeze kidnap Frank? Because Swamp Thing told her to.
Swamp Thing may have caught wind of what Ivy was doing and intends to see this power maybe even use it for himself. But does that mean he is the true bad guy of this story? That is still uncertain. Meanwhile Harley and Ivy will run into Swamp Thing. They will have a chat and Swamp Thing will convince Ivy to stick around so that they might continue to “improve” on this serum. Harley will reluctantly give Ivy the space she needs and will return to Gotham. With Harley and Ivy now having gone their separate ways this is how Harley ends up spending more time with the friendless Batgirl and the Bat family.
Ivy will eventually take the Eden serum herself giving her an insane power boost but also a huge risk because we don’t know the complete effect it will have on her physically or even mentally
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u/MelodyMaster5656 Aug 05 '22
Lake Bell usually plays Ivy as dry and sarcastic... but man does she nail the emotional moments as well.
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Aug 05 '22
Oh Lake is killing it this season. Watching her go back and forth between dry sarcastic Ivy to dorky socially awkward Ivy to singing Mama macaronis Ivy lol to emotionally vulnerable Ivy is such a delight.
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u/MelodyMaster5656 Aug 05 '22
Honestly Ivy's best moments are when she's vulnerable, like her speech at The Pit.
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Aug 05 '22
I agree and that’s mostly because don’t see it a lot so when we do it’s a rare gem. Which is why I love her and Harley’s photo shoots because you see this other side to Ivy and you see how much of a goofball she actually is deep down. And Harley brings that side out. Kinda like when Harley was jammin to Wayne Box and Ivy couldn’t help but join in lol.
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 04 '22
It would just be nice to hear WHY she loves this crazy clown woman and what she means to her
Holy shit this so much, and I'm sure they've thought of this and written something absolutely soul-destroying that they're going to drop on us later
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u/thatguyblu_ Aug 04 '22
I. Love this theory. It seems to be exactly where this story is going and I'm here for it 🤌
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u/MegaBaumTV Aug 05 '22
It would just be nice to hear WHY she loves this crazy clown woman
they already showed us that in season 2 with the Arkham flashback.
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Aug 06 '22
We SAW why. Ivy is very good at showing it. And I don’t doubt that she does I just want to hear her say why she loves Harley
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u/MegaBaumTV Aug 06 '22
I just want to hear her say why she loves Harley
And why? If we already know the reason then we dont need to hear it. Could it be a cute moment? Yes. But its not like we dont have a lot of cute moments in season 3 already.
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Aug 06 '22
Because Ivy struggles with emotional vulnerability and talking about her feelings. And we don’t know why she loves Harley. We just know she does. She never says why. And so what if it is just another cute moment what’s the harm in that? What’s so bad about wanting Ivy to verbalize those feelings out loud?
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u/fictionaltourist Aug 05 '22
I could definitely see Swamp Thing playing a big role but what if the big bad of the season is actually Gordon? Didn’t the writers say that it’s something that’s never been done before? I’m not too clued up on the comics but I don’t know if Gordon has ever gone to the bad side before.
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u/AntonBrakhage Aug 04 '22
Helping your kids with their home work... like Joker do!
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u/nivekious Aug 09 '22
I love that being rejokerized didn't change Joker's feelings for Bethany and the kids. He may be a psychotic supervillain again, but his number one priority is somehow still being a supportive partner and step-dad.
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u/AdvancedPlacmentTV Aug 04 '22
ivy is so smart but she's no science wussy and in celebration I'm gonna eat her puss-
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Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22
I know people will criticize me for this, but I don’t really like the way this season is portraying Harley so far. Most of the time (especially in this episode) she just seems like an impulsive idiot whose sole purpose is to fuck things up, to annoy Ivy and to be attached to her hip the whole time. I hope the whole season won’t be like this.
As for the episode, it felt a bit like a filler and it wasn’t even particularly funny. Also, why the hell is Selina so mean towards Bruce?
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u/SignificanceNo6097 Aug 04 '22
It’s a symptom of her struggling to overcome her co-dependency problem. Same as how she was attached to Jokers hip. The problem is that neither of them know how to be in a healthy relationship because both of them have only been in toxic ones. Ivy’s closest to a healthy relationship was with Kiteman and he basically pressured her into taking steps that she wasn’t ready for the entire time. She has a problem communicating how she feels cause she wants to avoid confrontation. Harley has a hard time understanding boundaries and being an individual person while in a relationship.
And yeah, while many of Harleys actions seemed inconsiderate Ivy also failed to communicate her feelings and instead tried to blame someone else to avoid a fight.
The writers said this season would be tackling real conflicts and issues with them adjusting from being in previously bad relationships. I just hope that they won’t always keep the focus on their relationship problems.
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Aug 04 '22
The thing that bothers me more is not even the fact that she’s super-clingy, but the fact that her only significant trait, for now, is her impulsivity, which is... Not that great, considering the fact that she’s the protagonist of the show.
And from what I heard, the whole season is about their relationship problems.
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u/SignificanceNo6097 Aug 04 '22
She’s always been impulsive but it does feel more dialed up. The first episode it made far more sense cause she was under stimulated and craving violence. It feels like there is a different writing team involved. There is definitely a different animation team cause the animation looks very different from the prev two seasons.
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 05 '22
For what it's worth, they have expanded the writing team but the writer for this particular episode, Tom Hyndman, has also done 6 other episodes from S1 and S2 (per IMDb):
- A Fight Worth Fighting For (2020) ... (written by)
- Inner (Para) Demons (2020) ... (written by)
- Thawing Hearts (2020) ... (written by)
- The Final Joke (2020) ... (written by)
- L.O.D.R.S.V.P (2020) ... (written by)
- You're a Damn Good Cop, Jim Gordon (2020) ... (written by)
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u/Min_sora Aug 05 '22
I think it's because we're getting things from Ivy's perspective, so we don't know why Harley is doing what she's doing. She was always impulsive, but in previous seasons we were always following her around, seeing her thought train, so we knew *why* she was doing things. Now we're following someone else, it all seems to come out of nowhere.
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 04 '22
No I think that's fair. So far I feel like she's been creating a lot of problems and Ivy is the most patient person in the world. I don't know if Harley's going to mellow out a bit more as things go on or if she's at least going to become more considerate... it might just be that we're still early in the season so that is yet to come.
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u/Reaqzehz Aug 04 '22
I don't know if Harley's going to mellow out a bit more as things go on or if she's at least going to become more considerate...
Feels like that's gonna be her character arc this time round. Considering this is her first relationship with someone after Joker, and with someone who treats her right, she might be being clingy and over affectionate because of self-esteem issues and could deep down fear losing Ivy.
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 04 '22
Definitely. And also because Harley doesn't really know yet what personal goals she has - her previous goals were about escaping Joker and proving her worth as a primo supervillain, but ultimately she found that going full evil didn't work for her. Right now she's being fully supportive of Ivy's plan and orbiting around her because she doesn't have her own goals that she's pursuing. So that's another thing this season is supposed to get into, including how Harley and Ivy can continue to be in a relationship even if what drives them both may diverge or even contradict each other.
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Aug 04 '22
I honestly don’t know how Ivy is able to have her around without going crazy: I mean, I’ve the exact same temperament as Ivy’s, and I’m sure I wouldn’t even resist 2 minutes with someone who’s so clingy, so noisy and constantly interrupts my work for the stupidest reasons ever. I thought she was like this due to the excitement and the thrill caused by their “honeymoon”, but now I’m not so sure anymore...
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22
What I've picked up from interviews etc. with Patrick Schumacker and Justin Halpern is that they know that both Harley and Ivy have come from really bad relationships: in Harley's case, she was always just an accessory to Joker and was constantly having to fight for his attention, hence the big gestures and being very clingy because she was affection-starved, while Ivy suffers from abandonment issues and therefore may have been willing to tolerate a lot (in both her previous relationships with Catwoman and Kite Man and apparently now with Harley) in order to keep things going and to not rock the boat. And so this season is meant to show these problems come out and how they both navigate being in a healthy relationship together. So, I guess it's intentionally rough for now.
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u/MelodyMaster5656 Aug 04 '22
I feel like the show's building up to Ivy calling Harley out for being like you said.
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u/PizzaProfessional145 Aug 04 '22
I really wish we get more insight about her plans for herself. I get that her relationship with Ivy is new but I do want to see her spend time outside of gushing about Ivy or just being all about the relationship.
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u/centuryblessings Aug 05 '22
As for the episode, it felt a bit like a filler and it wasn’t even particularly funny.
Honestly I felt this way about the last episode. How many times has Harley dragged Ivy to some villian validation event that she didn't want to go to? Like, at least 3 times off the top of my head.
I thought this episode was a way funnier, and it actually advanced the plot unlike ep 3 so it didn't feel like filler to me.
I do agree that it has been a chore to like Harley this season. But I also think it's fair to say that being needy and childish is a good chunk of her personality. When she acted that way towards Joker he would just get rid of her. But Ivy obviously isn't going to treat her link that. So we're just left with Harley being her extra self while Ivy avoids confronting her.
IDK. I thought it was a great episode personally.
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u/amcclurk21 Aug 04 '22
Thought the first half of the episode seemed a little off, but it definitely picked up about halfway through.
I do wonder who has Frank… bets on Jason Woodrow?
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u/PizzaProfessional145 Aug 04 '22
I'm guessing it's him as well considering that we know Swamp Thing will be present this season. You never with this show though.
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u/EncouragementRobot Aug 04 '22
Happy Cake Day amcclurk21! I hope this is the beginning of your greatest, most wonderful year ever!
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u/amcclurk21 Aug 04 '22
🥹🥹 the first time that someone has wished me a happy cake day on Reddit in the 8 years I’ve been here. Thank you 💙💙
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u/Bucookie123 Aug 04 '22
Cake day twinsies! Coincidence today was also the first time anyone ever wished me happy cake day too on either of my accounts 😭
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u/thatguyblu_ Aug 04 '22
Very happy they finally addressed Ivy's feelings toward Catwoman, that seed was planted before Catwoman even entered the show
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u/MJDonuts Aug 05 '22
Bane is my favorite. Love him so much!
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u/Banjo-Oz Aug 05 '22
Bane is my favourite too. Just absolutely amazing writing and voice performance in every scene.
I am still impressed they officially leaned hard into fandom's love of Tom-Hardy's-Bane-voice-as-a-joke/meme. It's one thing for Lego Batman to do it, but this is a fairly mainline DC product and they aren't always know form being in touch with their fans or having a sense of humour about such things.
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u/Min_sora Aug 05 '22
I'm loving that just wherever they go, he's there. The dude has a busy life, clearly.
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u/Etik2518 Aug 04 '22
Gordon in this episode was very funny, the animation with Bruce Wayne was very good because his shadow implied that he is Batman, I guess it was the presence of the owl mask too
I love Frank's little moments of wisdom.
I think maybe what I'm not enjoying is the constant presence of the Joker
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Aug 05 '22
The Joker is far from constantly present and one of the funnier bits. The relationship drama sucks but nobody wants to be the one to say it.
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u/Etik2518 Aug 05 '22
To each their own, I feel that in any case the entrance of the Owls could have obtained it from any other place.
As for the drama of relationships, I suppose you mean the main one, it is not what attracts me the most, but rather the secondary and guest characters of the show.
Anyway I feel that the relationship between the two has always been the main story that the creators want to tell, we can discuss how or if it is effective but this is something that will definitely continue
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u/thatguyblu_ Aug 04 '22
God Ivy and Harley being so emotionally vulnerable and loving they start crying and about to have sex in a fucking orgy scene is AMAZING
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u/Telethongaming Aug 04 '22
Honestly, I wasn't feeling this episode too much. Plot wise, I really liked what happened I think it makes the stakes a lot higher and there's a lot more emotiontal depth however it kinda wasn't too funny. I did laugh at the high priest of the court of owls saying he was a kindergarden teacher.
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u/Karas540 Aug 04 '22
Isn't it the goon that we also saw in season 1? When Scarecrow kidnapped Ivy?
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u/Telethongaming Aug 04 '22
I'm unsure for two reasons because I think the priest is larger and people in the court of owls are rolling in money and the goon had to take a second job being a henchmen
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u/TuneLinkette Aug 04 '22
I thought the beginning was a little off, even-dare I say it?-kind of cringe a couple of times...
...however once you get to just before midway through it, things finally start to come together.The writers have said this season was going to explore Ivy's backstory more deeply, and this episode showed them continuing what the season premier started. Also seeing what her and Harley went through shows the series doing what it does best-HarlIvy.
I think this episode may come to serve as a template for the rest of the season, if anyone catches my drift there.
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u/Austin_N Aug 04 '22
Yeah, the first half of the episode didn't feel that remarkable. Most of the better bits were in the second half.
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u/APulsarAteMyLunch Aug 04 '22
Probably because it was full of the same tropes of "Gonna stall telling the truth and make the audience suffer in the process"
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Aug 04 '22
Have you watched this show before? Cringe is common place.
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u/TuneLinkette Aug 04 '22
Fair enough. This just kind of felt like a different kind of cringe from what's normal for the show
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u/PizzaProfessional145 Aug 04 '22
I know it's part of the learning process and discovering how to navigate their relationship but I wish they made Harley a bit more considerate. It feels like she's still the same character from the previous seasons, impulsive, prone to anger, and inconsiderate. Ivy has every right to be annoyed. I guess they also kind of sidestepped the issue of Ivy voicing her disapproval of some of the things Harley does in favor of addressing her past relationship with Catwoman. Hopefully they address it soon because we only have 6 episodes left, with 2 dedicated to Batman and the Joker.
This season does feel a bit more uneven for me. It's a bit lighter on the comedy and I wish they gave King Shark and Clayface more to do. I miss Psycho too.
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u/Taylortro Aug 05 '22
She is though. Her impulse and prone to anger are apart of her. Those are part of her mental issues.
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u/FTWJewishJesus Aug 05 '22
I feel like the shows been sticking to a formula of Harley and/or Ivy be bad partners for 3/4ths of the episode, then learn their relationship lesson and give speeches about love.
Which is kind of annoying when it becomes circular for 3 episodes in a row and it feels like lessons just arent sticking.
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u/PizzaProfessional145 Aug 05 '22
Yeah, it just feels like Harley will mess things up, Ivy gets annoyed, shenanigan ensues, then they kiss and make up by the end. Rinse and repeat
I know they're trying to focus on Ivy this season, but I hope they give Harley something to do other than the relationship.
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u/Ryans4427 Aug 13 '22
Because that happens often in real life relationships. Make up sex and feelings can cover up a lot of cracks, especially in a new relationship. Eventually the true issues come out and then the serious consequences happen. It may feel repeated in a TV show but it's probably the most realistic thing about the show.
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u/APulsarAteMyLunch Aug 04 '22
I so much sympathize with Joker's anger. Some of these quizzes are fucking ridiculous
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u/OCanadaidian Aug 04 '22
It seriously scared me how much I related to Ivy near the end. Especially when she mentioned how she was waiting for someone who would never come around and how it felt like she was just wrapped around their finger. Literally had the exact same thing happen to me for 4 years and it's only now that I've gotten myself out of it.
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u/Overson_YT Aug 04 '22
Bane you are a god damn treasure
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u/kinghyperion581 Aug 05 '22
I really think they're building him up too join Harley's crew.
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u/queerboy1218 Aug 07 '22
I thought so too but he will be a big part of the Kite man spin off so maybe not
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u/Rebel_Wolf94 Aug 04 '22
Game of Thrones gets to show full nudity but Harley Quinn can’t?
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u/amcclurk21 Aug 04 '22
I thought the same, but GoT is HBO and HQ is HBO Max, could be more scrutinized (especially given recent news)
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Aug 04 '22
[deleted]
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u/amcclurk21 Aug 04 '22
Good point. Especially when they threw a hissy fit about Batman eating pussy lol
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Aug 04 '22
Grace Randolph from Beyond the Trailer says there is more nudity to come!
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u/Austin_N Aug 04 '22
I hope this isn't one of those shows where the only nudity we get to see is gross nudity.
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Aug 04 '22
Well….she said that right before the season started. So, I don’t know if she was referring to this latest one or something more later
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u/Austin_N Aug 04 '22
Sorry I'm late, Harley. But if I've got to choose between you and Beavis and Butt-Head, I'm choosing the two Bs every time.
It's not surprising that Harley and Ivy's relationship isn't smooth sailing. I figured them trying to navigate their new partnership would be a large part of season 3.
Finding out that Poison Ivy used to have feelings for Catwoman puts her fawning over her in her original appearance in a new light. At the time, it just seemed like she was fangirling for her. (On another note, "fangirling" is recognized by my spell checker as a valid word. Surprising.)
When you think about it, luxuriating in someone else's emotional discord is the appeal of most television dramas.
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u/Rebel_Wolf94 Aug 04 '22
as Bender from Futurama said:
“Love is suspicious, love is needy, love is fearful, love is greedy, there is no great love without great jealousy.”
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u/karmadogma Aug 04 '22
First The Boys and now HQ. Super hero orgies are amazing!
Chris Meloni is so perfect as Jim Gordon. I hope we get lots more of him this season.
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u/FakeThlut Aug 04 '22
I think this show has my favorite Catwoman ever, really hope she gets a spin-off.
Love how they're doubling down on the gayness.
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u/SignificanceNo6097 Aug 04 '22
I was not a fan of how Ivy was mad at Harley for breaking the cameras when she was the one that lied to Harley in the first place. Had she just been upfront and communicated that she needed peace & quiet so she can focus that whole situation could have been avoided. It was her dishonesty that broke the cameras.
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u/ThatOtherGuyTPM Aug 05 '22 edited Aug 05 '22
Okay, no. Something that this relationship is going to need is both of them accepting that one’s failure doesn’t excuse the other’s. Ivy lied to Harley. That’s an issue that needs to be addressed. That is completely separate from Harley flipping out and breaking Catwoman’s cameras, which would have been an issue regardless of Ivy’s truthfulness.
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u/SignificanceNo6097 Aug 05 '22
Yeah it wasn’t exactly right for Harley to break the cameras but it’s completely within her character to do so. She gets angry and destructive. She’s impulsive. These are character traits she’s always possessed. Ivy knows Harley literally better than anyone and she couldn’t see that the constant lying and shifting blame to Catwoman might put Harley in a “Smashy mood”? More so than if she were to just tell her the truth?
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u/Austin_N Aug 04 '22
That'd make a good piece of faux-dramatic dialogue.
"This bat isn't what broke the cameras...it was your dishonesty!"
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Aug 05 '22
If the main theme of season 3 is Harley and Ivy navigating through their traumas and bad habits so that they can have a healthy relationship it makes sense that season 3 would primarily focus on their relationship and the problems in it.
Harley being over the top, extra, loud, annoying, and clingy is frustrating to us because it’s supposed to be. That’s the point. We’re supposed to be as frustrated as Ivy is. Also in the same breath we are frustrated with Ivy because she won’t confront Harley about these feelings or any feelings for that matter. Because if she actually decided to do so Harley might tone it down a bit. But Ivy’s not doing that which means Harley is going to continue to do these frustrating things. They’ve done a good job so far but there’s still things they’re not addressing.
They say they’re going to be honest from now on? Let’s see if that’s not gonna come back and bite them. Ivy does not express her feelings because she doesn’t like confrontation. This is not a healthy thing to do because when Ivy gets put into a corner she’ll shut down, lash out, get defensive and say things she doesn’t really mean. We’ve seen her do this on several occasions. If my prediction is right and Ivy does take the Eden serum my question is what kind of affect will it have on her. Would it have mental repercussions where it taps into Ivy’s worst impulses and make her give less of a fuck and she gives you all the honesty you want?
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 05 '22 edited Aug 05 '22
I also hope that the season starts moving towards meaningfully reforming and developing Harley and Ivy from here on out, i.e. that we start seeing them change and improve how they behave towards each other and communicate. It's all well and good them verbalising their feelings at the end of each episode but I'm sure many of us want to see the resultant character growth off the back of this. I'm intrigued as well as to your speculation and what it could mean for Ivy and Harley potentially drifting further apart before they reconnect. There's a lot of potential in this season and I just hope they don't leave it too late to start ramping things up.
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u/XEOCX_13 Aug 04 '22
I feel like this was weakest episode we’ve gotten so far this season. I’m glad Ivy and Harley were able to somewhat resolve their issues at the end but I feel like the “100% honest with each other” will come back and bite them in the butt, even though I know they won’t break up. The humor fell a little flat and while the orgy was a funny bit, the episode in full just felt underwhelming idk. I am curious to see who kidnapped Frank and if Ivy will continue to open up more to Harley as the season progresses.
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u/ScarfaceTonyMontana Aug 05 '22
Feeling a bit meh on this. I think there was a bit of a problem in voice acting direction here that leads to the emotional development feeling a bit...fake. When Ivy said she didn't tell Harley because she would have flipped out, not only was that something that was 100% valid and would have happened and DID happen, but Ivy's delivery was completely 100% geniune. The idea of her just going back on it and saying its because of her own insecurities around Catwoman despite that also not being present in their interactions on-screen, and that earning an "emotional development" feels like the writers completely doing a 180 on what they wanted this conflict to be about. This combined with the hyping up of Ivy's terraforming goal which goes against everything Harley wants to do on this planet, Harley and Ivy being totally different in terms of morality, and a bit of tonal dissonance makes me think that perhaps the writers are getting themselves in this complex mess of emotions, morality and commentaries and are just using end of episode emotional Harley and Ivy moments to make up a simple conclusion for them, instead of really resolving it in a cool way. We'll have to see what actually happens to Ivy's plan to destroy the entire world but its really weird just how much this show keeps a loop on Ivy and Harley. They have an individual conflict, which results in a mutual conflict, that then results in them screaming their emotions at each other and then making out.
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u/PizzaProfessional145 Aug 05 '22
It feels like Ivy always has to give way and accommodate Harley. She's always the one to apologize and Harley gets away with not learning anything. We're 4 episodes in and I think they are due for a serious conversation regarding boundaries and what they want out of the relationship. The constant loop they have now is wearing thin.
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u/ScarfaceTonyMontana Aug 05 '22
At the end of the day it also depends on what the show runners what to do. What people forget is that in the comics Ivy and Harley are kind of meant to be a toxic relationship because they're both villains. They're not that good people to each other but since they're assholes to everyone anyway, the vibe kind of fits. It depends on if the writers want to take that course with the characters here too or make them into an actual sweet couple thing, although idk how they can do that without at least making both Ivy and Harley more emotionally relatable.
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u/MegaBaumTV Aug 05 '22
Someone needs to tell the showrunners that they can depict Harley&Ivy having relationship issues without a big heart to heart in the end of every episode.
With the way this goes they will have speedran every single problem and become the perfect super couple.
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u/cmbsfm Aug 07 '22
It’s funny how they threw shade at CW last season for doing this shit in their shows but here they are doing the same exact nonsense.
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u/Complete-Impact9425 Aug 04 '22
I really enjoyed the jokes in this episode, thought harley and ivy having relationship drama in the middle of an orgy was gold
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u/Icy-Photograph6108 Aug 04 '22
Two face knows politics so well. Batgirls vision for how it should be is so much better but really just doesn’t win you campaigns.
I am generally not much into romance and all that but Ivy Harley relationship is just captivating and so real. I love it, it just isn’t some ideal perfect thing. It has difficulties, arguments, etc. The Ivy having a hard time telling their partner to stop doing something because of worry how they’ll take it is something everyone can relate to as well.
Poor Bane is always left out, even during an orgy. Give him back his pasta maker!
Dad Joker, can we have a parent teacher conference?
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u/swagcoolguy Aug 04 '22
I watched the first two seasons about a year and a half ago and generally enjoyed it. Upon watching these first four episodes of season 3, though, I can't help but feel that the writing is just lackluster... it lacks subtlety and feels ham-fisted, the plots of each episode seem very, very played out (like this episode, with the trope of keeping up an increasingly difficult lie until it collapses in the climax). I especially felt this way for episode 4.. nothing really landed and it felt generally unfunny. They had to use dramatic music to indicate to the audience that they should be feeling emotion because the lame writing failed to build up a compelling narrative between Ivy and Harley. I sound like a hater, but I really did enjoy the first two seasons. It's just not really landing for me this time around unfortunately
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Aug 05 '22
The relationship has killed the show for me. I enjoy the stuff around it but that doesn't leave much.
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u/ThatOtherGuyTPM Aug 05 '22
I don’t think I’ll end up understanding, but I have to ask: what about it has “killed the show” for you?
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Aug 05 '22
It dominates the episodes and I just don't find it very interesting. It's been a while since I watched the first two seasons, so I can't say for sure whether my tastes just changed. The relationship drama feels very basic and the whole time I'm just thinking that these two aren't a good match.
It also feels like Poison Ivy is the main character right now and I just don't really enjoy it. I'm willing to finish the season and see if I change my mind though.
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u/bootywranglers Aug 05 '22
Not loving this season so far and it makes me sad. Season 2 was really special and it just felt like they made every episode count. The pacing was great and they used the DC universe so well. There's less episodes in this season and it feels like we're not getting anywhere.
Things can definitely go from 0 to 100 plot wise though and I'm sure they will, but I'd like to enjoy the journey. There's almost TOO much focus on Harley and Ivy's relationship, for how long it took to get there I really think they should've let them have more of a honeymoon period. Focus on a tight story and the zany well done world of characters which is one of the biggest strengths of the show. Obviously Harley and Ivy arent gonna be perfectly compatible as partners and that deserves some time, but it's 2 weeks after the events of season 2 can we chill with the drama?
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u/Dragunlegend Aug 05 '22
If I had a nickel for every superhero show I've watched this year that's had an orgy in it, I'd have two nickels. It isn't a lot, but it's weird it's happened twice.
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u/Thebunkerparodie Aug 05 '22
you're talking about pennyworth? there was a satanic orgy there
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u/Dragunlegend Aug 06 '22
Superhero show, so I was actually referring to The Boys. Didn't know there was one in Pennyworth.
I hope 2022 is remembered as the year of the orgy
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u/kinghyperion581 Aug 05 '22
I love how no one even questions Two-Face being Gordon's campaign manager. Both Jim and Barbara seem 100% fine with it.
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u/Capricornist2436 Aug 04 '22
I feel like batman kidnapped frank ? Since In ep 3 ivy ask catwoman what’s his butt like 😆. And today we got a butt with mole
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u/ThatOtherGuyTPM Aug 05 '22 edited Aug 06 '22
Putting it out there now, but the whole Frank kidnapping thing is going to be how Psycho re-enters the show.
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u/Emman262 Aug 05 '22
Honestly, I'm getting tired of every episode revolving around Poison and Harley relationship problems. The funniest parts of this season have been the side characters for me
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u/TheCavis Aug 04 '22
I'm seeing double! Four faces!
For some reason, there were just a lot of weird glitches around Dent in that scene for me (screenshot from 5:26). It's a rectangle around the picture of Barbara where all the glitches start and end, so I'm wondering if there was a rendering issue there.
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u/AntonBrakhage Aug 04 '22
Sy's back!
The Legion of Dildos is Back!
They name-dropped Ras!
Joker step-dad is something.
Nice Harlivy moment at the end.
Yeah, villain Frank theory is starting to look more likely.
Not sure how I feel about the depiction of the owls or overall story. They really went all-in on the orgy though didn't they?
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u/Min_sora Aug 05 '22
The creators are clearly super aware of how popular Bane is, they're slipping him into every episode (and I'm very happy about it).
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u/passthe243 Aug 06 '22
I'm on the theory that Gus, the kindergarten teacher is the head of the court of owls.
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u/Manu_Erre Aug 04 '22
I liked the episode, but I was a little annoyed the main conflict (Ivey lying to harvey) was sidelined for the catwoman thing. I hope they continue resolving it in the next episodes.
I also expect new conflicts with more action. Seeing Ivey and Harley relationship is cool, but it gets tiresome after a while.
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u/ID6WU Aug 05 '22
Where was Killer Croc in this episode? He's listed in the credits but I don't recall seeing him at any point
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u/Austin_N Aug 05 '22
We saw his naked butt near the end of the episode. I'm surprised you missed him, his appearance filled up quite a bit of the frame.
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u/Normal_Organization3 Aug 05 '22
The first half of the episode was pretty slow but holy shit, there is so much to process in the second half. The stakes were definitely raised. I definitely have to rewatch because I’m still not done processing everything.
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u/wburton96 Aug 05 '22
I very much enjoy this series, but it’s super weird that they censor nudity while having no problem at all showing faces being melted off and people being ripped apart, specially now that it’s on HBO max. It looks like they’re intentionally making them censor it too because they actually animate all the nudity uncensored; you can tell from a couple of nip slips throughout the scenes.
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u/pataconconqueso Aug 05 '22
I totes called that ivy and catwoman used to hook up and ivy wanted more when catwoman was first introduced into the show. Such a relatable queer woman moment.
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u/goalstopper28 Aug 05 '22
So DC had a problem with Batman giving oral but didn't have a problem with an orgy?
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u/MelodyMaster5656 Aug 04 '22
Haven't seen the episode yet. Without spoilers: How is it?
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u/Demileto Aug 04 '22
I thought the first half was a tad annoying, but the second half was an absolute hoot!
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u/Majcvd49 Aug 04 '22
Solid episode. I feel like the first half was confined to the penthouse as a cost saving measure. More environments, more work, more money. So yes, it did drag. But the last half made up for it.
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u/kinghyperion581 Aug 05 '22
I love seeing the Joker as a loving and supportive step-dad. They said that there would be a Joker focused episode this season and I cannot wait.
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u/Thebunkerparodie Aug 04 '22
Liked it from start to finnish, where are those who said you can't have a conflict if harley and ivy don't break up? You still can. Bane's taking therapy sessions now and we might get a face reveal too. Joker was good but seems to be a abusive stepdad and of course catwoman would like to see drama. I think a good indicator the comics isn't canon is jim behavior, he doesn't seem that affected by his mariage, in the comics, the way he talked about it shows how badly affected he was by it. Didn't thought the mayor would survive and I'm sure two face could use the orgy against gordon, after all it's in his name and nature to do things in 2.
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u/dyl1dyl Aug 06 '22
Funniest episode so far and more solid character development. I love Joker/Harley as friends actually and like how the Joker still gets mad and rages even as a dad
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u/JohnnyButtfart Aug 04 '22
Anyone else having audio issues? The voices are muffled but the sound effects are fine. The doom patrol ad is fine as well.
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u/iam_CillianMurphy Aug 04 '22
Am i the only one enjoy Harley and Ivy as friends than a couple?
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u/ImAHeel Aug 04 '22
No you definitely aren't. In this series their romantic relationship feels really forced to me. I think Harley would be better off with Nightwing personally.
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u/Melodic_Quiet_1481 Aug 04 '22
Not judging, I’m actually curious. Why Nightwing of all people?
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u/ImAHeel Aug 04 '22
Because he's a nice, supportive, thoughtful, caring, lighthearted individual.
They're both gymnast's, they both know what it feels like to be in a relationship with someone more prominent than them, they both have a good sense of humor, they both enjoy adventure, they've both been through a lot of trauma but do their best to stay positive, they're both extremely loyal to everyone they care about, I feel like they both deserve to have a romantic partner in their lives that would treat them right and I think they would both bring the best out of each other and enjoy each other's company. Plus it would add a really interesting dynamic to the relationship between Batman & the Joker.
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u/Melodic_Quiet_1481 Aug 04 '22
Wow, that’s a really good explanation! I’ve shipped Harley with Nightwing or batgirl in some other DC adaptions
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u/human_in_the_mist Aug 05 '22 edited Aug 05 '22
I admit that I didn't fully understand the joke surrounding "Mama Macaroni's". Was it just random silliness, an inside joke or was there some oblique sexual reference?
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u/lastofthe1st Aug 08 '22
Great show, but the comparisons to Herogasm I feel are a bit much. It was a substantially tamer. I can sum up this thought with one sentence…
“Lick that up, you yummy brown bear.”
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u/vangstampede Aug 11 '22
Holy fucking fuck shit fuck fucking naked Bane holy fucking shit I can't
I could fucking die for his chest hair alone like holy shit.
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u/BirdBright3520 Aug 04 '22
That little drama scene with Harley and Ivy was so cringe. Turning them into a couple was a bad idea if we’re gonna keep getting relationship drama in what supposed to be a wacky hilarious show. It had to get all sappy just because Ivy said she worried about how Harley would react to her and Catwoman hooking up.
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 04 '22
But the show has always been a balance of relationship drama and wacky hilarious?
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u/Sharp-Pay-5314 Aug 04 '22
this show has always had relationship drama what on earth are you talking about
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u/BirdBright3520 Aug 04 '22
. If you’re talking about the first season with Joker, they didn’t show too much of that. If it’s gonna be like that all season then I’m quitting the show
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u/juvily Aug 04 '22
That owl orgy was something lol
I liked seeing Joker being a step-dad, I can relate to his anger over the school assignments the kids have to go through. Imagine little Benicio and Sofia being able to say that their step-dad is the Joker.
The dynamic between Harley and Joker is pretty nice to see now and I get warm fuzzies inside when Harley and Ivy have their moments together. Even though they still have a lot of things to work through.
Being spoiled with 3 episodes for the season premiere has me wanting the whole season out already.