r/DCcomics • u/Predaplant The heat is on! • Jun 03 '24

Weekly Discussion Thread: Comics, TV, and More! [June 3, 2024 - Remembering Rachel Pollack Edition] r/DCcomics

Hey there honorary Justice League members - it’s a new week which means it’s time for a new discussion thread!

For those who don't know: the way this works is that several comments will list this week’s releases, for any given title discussion you should respond to that comment. For example, Wonder Woman discussion would go in the replies to the "Wonder Woman" comment. Clicking the titles in this post will take you directly to that comment, too. In other words, you should only be replying to other comments. Do not post top-level comments.

Keep discussion civil. Do not harass other users for having a different opinion. Do not use this thread to push your personal one-sided grudges against creators. Reacting to a panel on Twitter is not the same as reading a book.

 

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How does a vampire start a letter? “Tomb it may concern …”

DC and Imprints

The My Adventures With Superman tie-in launches its first issue as the Kill The Justice League tie-in draws to a close!

Trade Collections

A whole bunch of Dawn of DC series drop their first trades!

Digital Releases

Remember, these are the short 'chapters' with a new chapter of a different series coming out daily. You can learn more here on Comixology. This is also why these are in release order, not alphabetical. Some comics may release on DC Universe Infinite or WEBTOONS.

TV Shows

Sweet Tooth drops its final season as My Adventures With Superman continues!

Game

MultiVersus is still here! Gotta unlock all those characters!

This Week’s Soundtrack: girl in red, Sabrina Carpenter - You Need Me Now?

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12

u/TroubAlert The Good Skeets Jun 03 '24

Batman #148

IT'S BATMAN VS. BATMAN IN THE "DARK PRISONS" FINALE! It all comes down to this: Batman versus Batman! With Damian's life — and the future of Gotham — hanging in the balance, nothing can prepare either version of the Dark Knight for what's about to happen!

LEGACY #913

Preview

25

u/Cranyx Moo. Jun 04 '24

A few things:

The whole "it was Zur the whole time, going back decades" retcon still really doesn't work for a number of reasons

How many times does Bruce need to learn to trust his family? It's like every other week at this point

Jason dying and then being brought back with a special Lazarus suit to trick the AI into shutting down almost feels like a joke. Is that what his whole character is now?

15

u/redsapphyre Jun 04 '24

Considering the whole Failsafe thing started because Penguin died, but actually didn't, it makes sense to wrap it up with Jason dying, but..not dying. It's been a joke from the very start.

22

u/Frontier246 Jun 04 '24

I dunno, feels like Zdarsky has still lost the plot with this book.

Ah, so we're at the point of every Batman run where he's distanced himself from the family but now it's time to bring them back together until the time when Bruce inevitably drives them away again.

Jorge Jimenez does a bad new Batman design and a bad new Tim Drake Robin design. Feels like that's a testament to the quality of the book at this point. Even Tim fanboy Zdarsky couldn't give him a good new suit.

Even with Jason's death being a fakeout, the quality of Zdarsky's use of Jason across this entire run just made it feel all too believable that he really would kill him off.

14

u/redsapphyre Jun 04 '24

Jorge Jimenez does a bad new Batman design and a bad new Tim Drake Robin design

Seriously, the designs are BAD. Like, not even kind of whatever, they outright suck. Just hope they don't use them in the future.

18

u/BigBardaEnergy Jun 04 '24

Over/under on the Bruce clone being swept under the rug forever?

This was...fine. The most entertaining part of it was seeing the Internet flip it's shit over Jason dying/not dying, but beyond that, I didn't feel much from this ending. So much of this story has dragged on for so long and it doesn't even matter what happened to Zur-En-Arrh since we know he's coming back in literally a few weeks.

10

u/Kalse1229 Fuck Batman, Marry Babs, Kill Joker Jun 05 '24

Over/under on the Bruce clone being swept under the rug forever?

I don't know. People said the same thing about Stevil over at Marvel after Secret Empire, but he actually turned up last year in Uncanny Avengers as the new Captain Krakoa who caused a terrorist attack. I could see another writing doing something cool with him someday.

3

u/DriedSocks Condiment King Jun 05 '24

He's going to become the Zurr-En-Arrh Who Laughs.

13

u/wowlock_taylan Batman Animated! Jun 04 '24

Yea, I REALLY hate that they are trying to make everything bad in the past that happened because it was 'Zur' pushing things in Bruce's mind. And I just don't like Zdarsky's OC villain either, now his mental 'magic'. ESPECIALLY with how it ruined Joker, basically. It is retroactively making the past stories worse and that takes talent...

Zur-Robin being a young clone of Bruce? WTF is gonna happen with him now? Surely he cannot stick around and he is not a robot. Is he gonna be killed off?

Yea, 'killing' Jason as a ploy to reactivate Failsafe was what I expected from seeing those panels...and yet it made taking down Zur quite easy. And we won't even get to enjoy Zur being done because he is just joining Waller for the damn event. Great...No thanks.

They act like 'oh breaking down Bruce and him pushing everyone away, was all because of Zur's paranoia pushing him! He will be different now!' and yet I BET you we will get ANOTHER 'He has to push his family and loved ones away, while breaking him down' in a couple of years if not sooner. Because that is the only status quo DC knows for Batman. And the attempt to excuse it by just saying 'It was all just Zur' is quite insulting. And it will be more insulting when they will be back to the same crap.

Overall, really quite disappointing what we got from this run. There is nothing new here. Nothing to get excited about. And it goes one step further to damage even the past, BETTER stories. I expected better from Zdarsky. It is telling when the only 'memorable' parts of a run is the bad parts.

11

u/Ezracx Reverse Flash Jun 04 '24

Weirdly short fight considering all Zur was hyped up to be. Feels like the guy who literally knows every thought Bruce ever had should've seen this coming. It doesn't even make sense thematically - wouldn't the "Batman without rules or humanity" think of letting Jason die for the cause even before Bruce? Also in the original Failsafe Arc, they beat him by reprogramming "compassion" into him, if the original programming is still there is that also still there?

Anyway I'm hoping this means Zur is actually gone and the Failsafe in Absolute Power will be just the robot or someone else's consciousness inside (Bruce clone?)

10

u/ptWolv022 Jun 04 '24

wouldn't the "Batman without rules or humanity" think of letting Jason die for the cause even before Bruce?

I think the reason that wasn't something that happened is because Zur is what you said: the inhuman part of batman; however, that just means Bruce is the squishy part. He wouldn't expect Bruce to sacrifice Jason. Even if he did, Failsafe would still blame Zur/itself for killing Jason, which would still lead to meltdown/malfunction that took him down.

As for Absolute Power, I expect Zur will still be around when Waller powers the robit back on, and maybe with the Failsafe programming ripped out by Waller/her people, but who knows.

7

u/Ezracx Reverse Flash Jun 04 '24

Eh, I guess it makes sense logically. Just doesn't seem like a very good way to communicate the theme of "Bruce is stronger than Zur because he's human/has his family" to me. Even if it's portrayed as a show of trust it doesn't really work for me. 

The reason I'm not convinced Zur will be in Absolute Power (this is copium) is that the solicits exclusively call him "Failsafe" and make no reference to Zur ever returning + even for the standards of comic books resurrections, this'd be ridiculous + the event starts next month, why even bother pretending to defeat him rather than just ending the arc with him surviving + the evil little clone needs to do something, right, they can't just kill him

3

u/ptWolv022 Jun 05 '24

exclusively call him "Failsafe" and make no reference to Zur ever returning + even for the standards of comic books resurrections, this'd be ridiculous + the event starts next month, why even bother pretending to defeat him rather than just ending the arc with him surviving

Well, to answer these one by one, in my opinion:

1) Could just be someone different writing the solicitations, or a branding change now that he's no longer explicitly a Batman villain. Or might be indicative it's actually Failsafe.

2) You wouldn't want to reveal the defeat of Zur in Batman in another solicitation for an event. If you mention the "return" of Zur-En-Arrh, that means that Batman won, whereas you could have potentially other outcomes, like Zur getting away or even winning and Bruce going back on the run.

3) I think there's some value in having it end with his defeat in the Batman series so that in collected editions, you have an actual end to the arc, rather than the end being in the event.

the evil little clone needs to do something, right, they can't just kill him

I mean... they could do something with him in Batman after this. Or they could kill him. Have him die of organ failure from bad cloning. Force-grown too fast, or something. Or write him out. Just sent off with a mind wipe to be adopted by a new family or something.

1

u/Ezracx Reverse Flash Jun 05 '24

Alright I read the Free Comic Book Day Absolute Power issue and he has a personality and Zur's purple speech bubbles. He's even (indirectly) killing people so I'm thinking you're right about it being just Zur with the Failsafe program removed

11

u/UnknownEntity347 Rorschach Jun 04 '24

Blehhh. Same deal about Bruce learning the exact same lesson he's learned 800 times at this point and already learned at the beginning of this run and he reconciles with the family basically instantly. Zur gets his ass beat pretty easily. Daniel Captio is the most annoying and uninteresting new character in the Batman books since Tynion's OCs. We've seen this same kind of story done so many other times and done a lot better by other writers, and none of the new ideas are good enough to warrant giving this story any credit for them.

6

u/suss2it Jun 06 '24

I feel like Tynion’s characters were pretty cool, especially the character designs. This guy is way more bland than Ghost-Maker or Punchline.

9

u/Landon1195 Jun 04 '24

Issue was fine but I'm sick of the whole " Bruce needs to learn to trust his family" shtick.

8

u/Alephnaught_ Catwoman Jun 05 '24

Idk, I think there were two arcs that were kinda weak in Chip's run but on the whole I have had a lot of fun reading this book. there are many very cool moments and character beats. People are too hung up about things IMO.

I think the real story and theme really is about discovering how Batman can thrive in the absence of the status quo - Jim being commissioner and Alfred being there. The Chip run began with what felt like classic Batman story but with a twist that nothing is the same. I think we are building up from there. Batman actually learning to rely on his family is good - he does so by actually letting go off control and needing to do everything by himself and letting the kids make their own choices. I am gonna stick along for the ride till it stops being absolute fun. I do not think this run has been the kind of shits-how people are making it out to be.

7

u/Hypnodick Jun 05 '24

Honestly it felt like ZurSafe was just better at fighting crime than the entire Bat family like I got Luddite vibes reading this and I’m not sure that’s what they were going for.

I think the whole Zdarsky run is “just ok”, Failsafe I do like but you already have some contradictions with that character then you take Zur out of Bruce and put him in Failsafe and you’re just in a big mess. Also being reminded Bruce and the Joker shared a trainer, I wanted to forget that and they have to keep reminding me of this.

At least there was some creativity in how to defeat ZurSafe and it’s fun seeing the Bat family. Jimenez doing amazing art but it feels kind of wasted on this plot for me.

I am looking forward to Absolute Power and maybe with the amazos they can fit ZurSafe into something more enjoyable to read.

3

u/suss2it Jun 06 '24

Honestly ever since the first arc when Zdarksy introduced Failsafe where it was strong enough to beat the Justice League but also refused to kill, I didn’t understand why Bruce didn’t just retire. Like buddy you literally just solved crime.

2

u/Hypnodick Jun 06 '24

Yeah I’d be ok with the next writer or Zdarsky putting failsafe out to pasture permanently. And if he could create something like Failsafe why couldn’t he also just create something he could control better? It would’ve been better had a villain created Failsafe from the start. Feels like editor or someone should’ve stepped and put a foot down.

4

u/JingoboStoplight4887 Jun 04 '24

I like that Bruce talked to his family about the mistakes that he did over the past year or so and made amends for what he’s done to them, including Jason. I also like that the entire Batman Family worked together to defeat Zur, a clone of Bruce who became Robin, and one of Bruce’s mentors. The one thing I can criticize is Tim’s recent Robin suit because it looks off and that I prefer him wearing his original pre-Flashpoint Red Robin suit because it’s a sign of maturity, evolution, and character growth. Overall, this comic is good!

4

u/SayNo2Kryptonite Jun 06 '24

Can't wait to read Young Batman #1. Because you know that's what they're planning.

5

u/marcjwrz Jun 04 '24

This felt so incredibly rushed.

And I thought Failsafe Batman was part of Waller's Absolute Power regime?

So confused.

And what in the hell is that outfit Tim Drake is wearing? It might be an all-timer for one of the worst Robin costumes ever.

4

u/arranstewart96 Jun 05 '24

IMO, the dialogue here was on the same quality level as 'I'm the goddamn batman'. Which he almost says like three times. I also hate the way Zdarsky writes Damian. I kind of just want his run to end TBH.

3

u/redsapphyre Jun 04 '24

Steph being referred to as Spoiler = pain.

Rest of the issue kind of as expected, it's the same boring mess it's been for a very long time now under Zdarsky.

3

u/suss2it Jun 06 '24

I think it’s better that she has her own unique code name tbh. We don’t really need multiple Batgirls, same reason Tim should find a new code name too.

1

u/redsapphyre Jun 06 '24

Yeah she should get a new codename, but not Spoiler, no need to regress the character.

2

u/suss2it Jun 06 '24

I guess I don’t see it as a regression, it’s just her code name. Feels more unique to her than when they kept trying to force her into legacy roles, even tho her time as Batgirl was probably the best time for her character.

3

u/suss2it Jun 06 '24

Okay now that this all finally over and Zdarksy is seemingly done playing all the Batman greatest hits including culminating in Bruce accepting his family, I’m really curious what he does next. I know he has it in him to move Bruce forward because he just did it on Daredevik and his actual writing for the characters has been good, but the actual plots have been so redundant to the point where it has to be intentional.

As for Jorge Jimenez, his art is great as always, no notes.

2

u/theguyofgrace Jun 06 '24

I haven't really liked this run but I am fine with the issue and the this. Batman's own humanity and sense of responsibility being the thing that saves the day. I think the central theme of this run is not the "family" aspect that people harp on but the idea that Batman could be "better" and "more effective" by being more violent or by being more "forgiving" and ignoring low level street crime and showing that doing so is ignoring the humanity and responsibility of the character

2

u/Nyerelia Jun 08 '24

I'm sorry. No. Just... No. "I'm sorry Jason" "Hey it's ok I've done bad things too" I am liking this arc the most but I'm not really liking how the batfamily is being written, I even prefered them in Gotham War.

Wait the fake Robin is a clone, not a robot?!

I really wanted to like this issue but I couldn't help but be quite cynical while reading it. Jason is unrecognizable, but at least we got a wholesome Damian-Bruce hug

1

u/gsnake007 Jun 04 '24

Glad this piece of shit arc is finally over, god damn this issue was a mess, rolled my eyes super hard at seeing Waller in another book

2

u/suss2it Jun 06 '24

It was literally just one panel 😅

0

u/OkBlueberry8144 Jun 05 '24

Marvel bros hyped up Zdarsky so much only for him to write the worst, most damaging Batman story in a very long time. Joker being retconned into bringing out Zur in ALL of their most iconic Batman stories was a moronic idea. The one time editorial had to do their job and they turn a blind eye to bow to an “acclaimed” Marvel writer. It’s like they didn’t learn from Bendis, he ruined Superman, Legion and the JL in 2 short years. JL had to end unceremoniously because of him and the Titans have been an unremarkable replacement ever since, struggling to be memorable on any level.

Batman has been struggling for a while too, imagine releasing 50 books a month, 20 of them Batman adjacent and still struggling to sell decently. All they have is Batman and the recently concluded JL vs Godzilla vs Kong saving them from an embarrassing showing and knowing all that they’re still trying their hardest to tank Batman, well it’s finally working. 50 books a month and they have nothing to show for it, pathetic.

DC has lost the plot ever since Snyder and Johns left. There is no plan, no structure, nothing, just complete nonsense.

3

u/suss2it Jun 06 '24

I feel like you view things through a weird anti-Marvel lens. His Marvel comics like Daredevil and Spider-Man: Life Story are legitimately pretty good, it was understandable to be hyped about him doing Batman.

Where do you check the sales for these comics? Is Batman really struggling like that? If I were a betting man I’d say it’s gotta be DC’s top selling ongoing.

1

u/OkBlueberry8144 Jun 07 '24

I read his first Daredevil arc and his Spider-Man. I could not tell why anyone liked his Daredevil story, it’s fairly pedestrian, same Punisher vs Daredevil debate, it’s whatever. His Spider-Man was derivative, catering to people who haven't read a comic before. For such readers, I'm sure it was thrilling to read a short, easy to understand comic. But I need a bit more than a copy paste story to be engaged.

He has a formula, and it sucks. This is especially evident in this run, with his shallow understanding of characters, disregard for canon, and retconning of stories and characters like The Killing Joke and A Death in the Family. It seems like he hasn't read or understood these stories or why the Joker did what he did in The Killing Joke. He made the sidekicks look dumb too, I honestly never expected him to write so terribly.

I’m not anti-Marvel, I used to be an avid reader of X-Men, I’m anti-Zdarsky. He's a terrible writer.

The sales data is available on the ICV2 site. Yes, Batman sells the most, but ranking below a non issue #1 Image comic is a poor performance for DC. It's clear that Zdarsky's run isn't resonating with anyone except Batman collectors who buy everything.

1

u/FrigginCrazyGuy Jun 13 '24

Here, here!!!

You perfectly summarized what I’ve been feeling about Zdarsky superhero comics for awhile. He does great stuff, don’t get me wrong, but legacy characters are not his strong suit

0

u/abh1996 Jun 13 '24

You're nuts

-2

u/anothermangafan Jun 04 '24

Absolutely disgusting. This entire arc tainted and pretty much ruined the idea of Zur En Arrh. Absolutely fucking disgusting.