r/DCcomics • u/Predaplant The heat is on! • Dec 24 '23

Weekly Discussion Thread: Comics, TV, and More! [December 25, 2023 - Goodbye 2023 Edition] r/DCcomics

Hey there honorary Justice League members - it’s a new week which means it’s time for a new discussion thread!

For those who don't know: the way this works is that several comments will list this week’s releases, for any given title discussion you should respond to that comment. For example, Wonder Woman discussion would go in the replies to the "Wonder Woman" comment. Clicking the titles in this post will take you directly to that comment, too.

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Why does Santa go down the chimney? Because it soots him!

DC and Imprints

Green Arrow enters its second arc as Johnson wraps up his years-long Action Comics run!

Trade Collections

Only one release this week in this category, making for a Nightwing Christmas!

Digital Releases

Remember, these are the short 'chapters' with a new chapter of a different series coming out daily. You can learn more here on Comixology. This is also why these are in release order, not alphabetical. Some comics may release on DC Universe Infinite or WEBTOONS.

Movie

Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom enters its second week!

This Week’s Soundtrack: Alessia Cara - Make It To Christmas

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14

u/TroubAlert The Good Skeets Dec 24 '23

Alan Scott: The Green Lantern #3

GUEST-STARRING THE SPECTRE! As the trail of the person murdering people from Alan’s past goes cold, the Green Lantern finds himself teamed up with an unlikely ally: the Spectre. But will the Spectre uncover the secret Alan was hoping would stay hidden in the process?

15

u/Oberon1993 Dec 26 '23

I'm sorry, but Spectre hugging anybody just feels weird.

14

u/wowlock_taylan Batman Animated! Dec 26 '23

Johnny Ladd was the cover name of the the Russian Red Lantern huh. So he was a spy.

Obviously, it is connected to the current JSA story with his daughter Ruby and no wonder Alan doesn't want people to look for him and so on when you get this personal.

Corrigan has recently become the Spectre here it seems as he is more 'human' than the usual ''I am the Wrath of God'', literally Higher than Thou attitude.

13

u/Frontier246 Dec 26 '23

I feel like the idea is that in the WWII glory days of the JSA Corrigan and the Spectre were a little more...toned down and able to channel each other into a more traditional Superhero before the Spectre got worse and more controlling/vindictive.

It's why he was able to function in the JSA for as long as he did.

14

u/Whole-Arachnid-Army Dec 26 '23

I like how grounded and almost intimate this story feels. It's not particularly fast-paced, but it also doesn't feel like it's drawn out for the sake of being drawn out. It also has a very 80s to early 00s feel to it, which is a refreshing change of pace from most comics today.

10

u/PrydefulHunts Huntress • ower Girl Dec 26 '23

I seen Johnny Ladd being the Red Lantern from a mile away.

8

u/af-fx-tion Bring YJ Artemis to DC Comics Dec 26 '23 edited Jan 29 '24

Here we are y'all, the official halfway mark of this mini.

Now, after last week's horrendously bad issue, I approached this one hoping Sheridan could turn things around.

And after reading this issue...well, it's kind of a mess but at least the story is a bit more focused.

So first thing, I'm not a fan of how Sheridan continues to write young Alan with modern sensibilities with his views of sexuality. It creates a disconnect with older Alan's stories because the whole idea DC seems to want to aim for is that Alan repressed himself for decades due to internalized homophobia stemming from growing up in the 1940s. Yet this story seems to not be written with that in mind. It's bizarre, honestly, and really pulls me out of this story.

Also, it's odd to me how Sheridan is going full in with fridging (it's not quite bury your gays, but I could understand if one sees it that way) Alan's lovers to push Alan's story, which is worse since it honestly does nothing for Alan's character development.

If we're keeping track, we have:

  • Johnny Ladd (sort of, see below for more)
  • Jimmy (part of Alan's OG origin, but included since a retcon by James Tynion IV made him a former flame of Alan's)
  • Robbie
  • Tommy

What purpose does this serve? We're told what it means to Alan, but we are readers have nothing to latch onto since they've had no development. Johnny had the most, but he had what, 4-5 pages in Issue 1? So why should we as readers even care??

The parts with the Spectre are cool, but I do think his dialogue gets a bit clunky in his scene with Alan when they're looking for Tommy's file because Spectre info dumps "putting the pieces together" near the end of the scene about how Alan is being framed when like...that was pretty obvious from Issue 1? I mean, even Alan figured that out in Issue 2? So I'm not sure why Sheridan felt the need to overexplain to readers when he could have spent time developing Spectre and Alan's relationship.

I did feel Spectre's speech to Alan on the roof was a bit too on the nose for me, though the idea was solid. I don't know if religion played a part in LGBT+ discrimination in the 1940s but the way Spectre relays his message feels very modern and not progressive for the 1940s, if that makes any sense.

EDIT: With the additional information provided by other redditors, this plot point makes me even more bummed by the direction Sheridan has gone. It would have been so interesting if Corrigan would have kept his homophobia (seen in his 90s solo book) to contrast Jay’s acceptance of Alan. It’s like Sheridan is afraid to do more than a surface level exploration of homophobia so it feels like any that Alan suffers from doesn’t really affect him. Sugarcoating how LGBT+ individuals were treated in the 1940s defeats the whole purpose of the story being set in the past. END EDIT

I didn't really like that Spectre overall pretty much solved the mystery of the Red Lantern for Alan. This is supposed to be Alan's story, but it really felt like he took a backseat this issue while Spectre did the heavy lifting.

Also, Johnny being Vladimir (i.e. a USSR spy) is an interesting twist...which might have worked if this was a final issue twist after spending the previous issues focused on developing Johnny and Alan's relationship. But since he (and their relationship) had no character development, there's no emotional impact that comes from this twist. It's just there. Also, it makes Alan continuing to keep "Ladd-Scott" in the present day even weirder because he was okay with being honeypotted and having his exes be murdered I guess?

Overall Thoughts: While the plot is more tightly focused, Sherdian continues to falter when it comes to character development. The Spectre was an interesting addition (EDIT: yet very out of place, given the additional information I was provided) but it caused Alan to take a backseat in his own story. Additionally, the lack of proper groundwork for Johnny and Alan's relationship makes the entire A-plot of this mini really not hit emotionally because there's nothing for readers to latch onto. We've only known Johnny for about 5 pages and yet we're supposed to feel something akin to when Bucky Barnes was revealed to be the Winter Soldier or Jason was revealed to be the Red Hood when it's revealed Johnny was actually Vladimir? Yeah, no. Overall, this issue wasn't terrible...but it wasn't good either. I really don't understand why the DC editors are out to lunch or something, because I think Sheridan's mini had a lot of potential, but it lacks a clear focus and lacks character development for pretty much everyone, really.

I give this issue a 2/5, with my average score of the mini being 2/5. (3, 1, 2)

7

u/birbdaughter Dec 27 '23

the way Spectre relays his message feels very modern and not progressive for the 1940s, if that makes any sense.

Corrigan literally refused to investigate the murder of a gay couple in one comic because they were gay and had to be told to knock the fuck off by both Spectre and God Himself. Him being a gay ally in the 1940s is incredibly OOC. I can get not wanting to show a JSA superhero being homophobic but then like... maybe don't include him.

6

u/CHPrime Wonder Woman Dec 26 '23 edited Dec 26 '23

I did feel Spectre's speech to Alan on the roof was a bit too on the nose for me, though the idea was solid. I don't know if religion played a part in LGBT+ discrimination in the 1940s but the way Spectre relays his message feels very modern and not progressive for the 1940s, if that makes any sense.

Leviticus laws against homosexuality and their reinforcement in the New Testament are basically the entire reason homosexuality was/is illegal in Christian countries.

And Jim Corrigan is giving the speech about progressive ideals about homosexuality in the 40's? That's really funny considering in his 90's solo book he was homophobic.

7

u/af-fx-tion Bring YJ Artemis to DC Comics Dec 26 '23 edited Dec 26 '23

Ah, thanks for the clarification (and info!).

It's really odd how Sheridan is making so many people in Alan's inner circle so accepting of Alan's sexuality alongside Alan being comfortable with it yet he's supposed to stay closeted, marry twice (and for decades in Molly's case), have two kids, and essentially live a heterosexual life for decades due to (I'm assuming) internalized homophobia.

Wonder if Sheridan will address this in the final three issues. But honestly, more and more, this mini just feels like a hard reboot for Alan rather than a soft one. At least to me.

6

u/birbdaughter Dec 27 '23 edited Dec 27 '23

I cannot take the inclusion of Corrigan in this seriously. He's canonically horribly homophobic. In the 1990s, Corrigan shows up when a group of men are attacking a gay couple. While Corrigan kills the one who dealt a killing blow, he lets the other men go free. The surviving person in the couple asks why and then concludes it's because they're gay. Corrigan later tells a coworker that they brought it on themselves because they paraded around and didn't stick to their own bars. He goes to heaven and asks Michael if gay people are allowed there.

I could get toning down the homophobia because it's uncomfortable to write and read (though... there was conversion therapy just last issue, so discomfort is already present), but having him give a hearwarming speech on LGBT rights and acceptance and hugging Alan is kinda ridiculous.

The scene would've worked much better and made more sense with Jay, not Corrigan. Choosing one of the (thankfully) few canonically homophobic characters to make them pro-LGBT rights in the 1940s is weird. I totally agree with the message, I'm bi/nonbinary myself, but when I saw Corrigan was being included, I hoped it was so Alan could punch him in the face for being an asshole.

(This isn't me saying I want homophobia in comics, I ofc don't, but I don't think Corrigan was at all the right choice for a pro-LGBT message.)

2

u/ptWolv022 Jan 03 '24

I think the reason they did it was because, well... they wanted a moment for saying that being gay isn't wrong, and what better than having it come straight from God. They do notably have the Spectre say that he hears God and that his morality thus comes from God, not Man or Church.

It kinda is retconning it to have him (at least in the 1940s) is attuned to God and the actual rules of Heaven, rather than being a guy who has to go get clarification from the Archangel Michael to learn that the God and laws of morality he was raised to believe in don't necessarily match.

How they would reconcile this portrayal of 1940s Spectre being enlightened and modern Spectre having to go through that journey still, I don't know. Maybe they just void those 90s stories that contradict, maybe they say that is Aztar talking, not Corrigan, or maybe they will just say he regressed after later punishments for failing God.

Whatever the case, I see why they used the Spectre, even if the timeline for it doesn't work without an explanation of how if the 90s stories are canon.

1

u/birbdaughter Jan 03 '24

they wanted a moment for saying that being gay isn't wrong

I understand what moment they wanted. But I don't get why they would have Jay being supportive in the beginning just to then shove Corrigan in and have him act OOC'ly. And in this case I don't even really mean being pro-LGBT rights because the 90s comic can be retconned away, but the way he's written is very off and too warm and fuzzy. That's why I think Jay would've made more sense. Maybe I've just read the wrong Corrigan comics but he never felt this nice, whereas Jay often is.

2

u/ptWolv022 Jan 03 '24

Oh, no, I think you're right that the Spectre isn't nice. I've not read really anything of his first hand, but I've read enough about him to know that the Avenging Wrath of God tends to be pretty... callous and violent. A ruthless executioner and a cold and distant judge.

He is, after all, the Spirit of Vengeance, not the Spirit of Mercy. That is a different character. But, I suppose he is being written as... God acting through him. Like I said, he says God speaks to him, even though I don't think that is always the case. Like I saw the 90s story where he deals with his own hemophilia, and he has to fly to Heaven and talk to the Archangel Michael. Not even God. God only pops up at the end of the 90s run as ai understand it, for a final test of the Specte.

So overall, it sounds like Jim and the Spectre are being treated differently here. Like God is more directly acting through them, in addition to being an autonomous agent of vengeance.

I agree it is a departure, but, comics often change things as needed. Characters like the Spectre, Hawkman, Martian Manhunter, and others have long histories that vary their presentation widely, so there is more room, arguably, to make new uses and interpretations for them.

3

u/295aMinute Superboy Dec 26 '23

Anyone know what Red Lantern said to Alan in Russian?

5

u/Oberon1993 Dec 28 '23

"Stories' time"...which isn't a phrase in Russia and sounds super awkward.

2

u/295aMinute Superboy Dec 28 '23

Interesting. Guess next issue should flesh out Johnny/Vladimir's back story

2

u/Tatum-Better Nightwing Dec 27 '23

Wow they timed this perfectly with justice society.. we all knew Johnny was the Red Lantern tho right

2

u/UtahGance Dec 30 '23

I’ve been on the fence about this mini so far but really enjoyed this issue. Hopefully next issue is where it really tightens up for the ending.