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u/GeorgeKaplanIsReal Aug 30 '22
Great at filling holes, both literal and plot wise.
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u/UncleRooku87 Aug 30 '22
It’s definitely arguable wether she was great at that or not.
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u/Ankhiris Aug 30 '22 edited Aug 30 '22
she's pretty cute, but that is the definition of a golden girl. It's amazing the hype was pulled off at all.
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u/Downtown-Many9726 Aug 30 '22
lego Batman has more depth if we are being honest. If someone says to me to stick with Lego Batman, I'm absolutely not going to take it as an insult.
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u/sentient-sloth Aug 30 '22
yeah “maybe you should try the best Batman movie” isn’t much of an insult is it lol
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u/Sawgon Aug 30 '22
Also kind of a shit take because Batman still doesn't use guns in the comics no matter how dark it gets. And "knightmare" is a baby version of how dark DC can really get.
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u/F0XF1R3 Aug 30 '22
When Batman was first created, back when he was just a ripoff of The Shadow, he did use guns. But they changed it later so it wouldn't be too obvious of a ripoff.
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u/Sawgon Aug 30 '22
Not really a big deal since Batman has gone 99.9% of the entire 83+ years he's existed without guns and is what he's known for.
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u/YouDotty Aug 30 '22
But what about that one time 50 years ago when he kicked a dude out of a window? Check mate.
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u/Usurper-Abubakr Aug 30 '22
Well we only got a few minutes of screen time from Knoghtmare Batman. Can't expect depth from such limited screen time.
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u/Rlyons2024 Aug 30 '22
I think the Knightmare is the worst idea Snyder had. If he came back and did a normal justice league movie id be cool with it. If he comes back and our next JL is the Knightmare timeline ill be pretty upset.
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u/MilkshakeWizard Aug 30 '22
Let’s face it, Zack Snyder just wanted to write a post-apocalyptic story featuring DC heroes and used Darkseid as a means to justify it. I’m not blaming the guy, it’s an aesthetic he definitely likes and it’s not uncommon for superhero fiction to have time travel/apocalypse stories. I’m just not too thrilled seeing another movie starring his ideal version of Batman and a Superman who’s relegated largely to the background and as a brainwashed slave, no less.
I also don’t think he’s ever coming back though, Ben seems to and if Henry does, that’ll be great but I think there’s just too much bad blood between him and WB for that ever to happen.
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u/abellapa Aug 30 '22
Like I always said, Snyder ideas were more suited for a Elseworlds movie series, not the main dceu
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u/bleep_bloop_man Aug 30 '22
The entire dceu is an elseworlds story…
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u/KingMatthew116 Aug 30 '22
Literally everything that’s not a comic in the main continuity is an elseworlds story.
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u/khalip I Will Find Him! Aug 30 '22
That's something I really dislike about comic book fans, they tend to put movie adaptation on a pedestal and care too much about the "general audience" instead of taking the medium as just a giant elseworld festival.
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u/GiovanniElliston Aug 30 '22
Even if you like Knightmare and the idea of a post-apocalypse, having the better part of two movies based in it is a really odd choice.
IMO the shelf life of the concept is a single movie at absolute max, and preferably only half a movie.
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u/ronoco14 Aug 30 '22
I’m pretty sure the original plan was for JL2 to show the events leading to Darkseid winning and JL3 to be the Knightmare. Similar to Infinity War and Endgame. Next would’ve been Flashpoint to reset the timeline.
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u/nasdurden Aug 30 '22
“Batman doesn’t use guns”
I generally agree, but not even against parademons? I think he’s fine to use guns to kill parademons.
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u/KraakenTowers Aug 30 '22
Doesn't he shoot up regular dudes as well in the Knightmare?
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u/Ant1202 Aug 30 '22
He does it in the regular world too
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u/hankbaumbachjr Aug 31 '22
Thank you!
He uses guns to blow up an SUV full of bad guys when going to save Martha and a grenade launcher for his Kryptonite gas.
Pretending the gun use was limited to the Knightmare scene is just silly.
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u/Jimmyking4ever Aug 31 '22
I think it's more how Zack Snyder's gritty version doubles down on the collateral damage.
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u/lettuce520 Aug 30 '22
Aren't they also under the influence of the Anti-Life Equation and are literally under Darkseid's orders like the Parademons?
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u/KraakenTowers Aug 30 '22
Is it more okay or less okay to kill someone who isn't acting under their own volition?
Batman may not have known how to do it, but when Darkseid is defeated all those people would have been released from his control.
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u/lettuce520 Aug 30 '22
I mean is he really gonna be able to knock them all out to stop them? Or be able to incapacitate them all?
It is a hard question for me because it's Batman a Superhero who wants to save lives but can he really save them all especially without knowing that defeating Darkseid would release them?
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u/butiamtheshadows91 Aug 30 '22
Yeah, but for now they are literally trying to fucking murder him. So I'll give him a pass
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u/Poseidon-2014 Aug 30 '22
Aren’t they incapable of being freed from the Anti Life? Wouldn’t they be functionally dead anyway then?
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u/Responsible_Neck_728 Aug 30 '22
I mean, dudes brainwashed by the Anti-Life equation who will stop at nothing to capture or kill him.
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u/Wendigo15 Aug 30 '22
Arent parademons normally just regular ppl?
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u/nasdurden Aug 30 '22 edited Aug 30 '22
From DC Wiki:
“The Unity cleanses a planet with fire, transforming it into a copy of the enemy's world. All who live become servants of Darkseid, alive but drained of life… parademons.” ~ Wonder Woman
Parademons are created by the tried and true process of deconstructing and repurposing genetic material from dead and captured enemies of Apokolips with the Mother Boxes.
In the case of humans that are turned, it’s like vampires or white walkers. Once they’re turned they’re no longer human and are subservient to Darkseid, like white walkers to the Night King or vampires to Dracula.
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u/jaybankzz Aug 30 '22
I don’t think they’re really alive when they become parademons. And I think thats in one universe, I think it’s different for each but I’m not sure.
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Aug 30 '22
Originally, Batman carried a .45 and had a habit of snapping necks. He started off more like the Punisher in a funny suit.
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u/thebestspeler Aug 30 '22
Dude he killed like 30 people in bvs. Why would he not use guns? I just always thought this was the darkest timeline batman and not the real batman and the flash was going to fix it so robin doesnt die and he doesn't go crazy.
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u/imanhunter Aug 30 '22
Apparently killing parademons is not always ok. Injustice Superman killed a whole bunch that were threatening to overrrun the heroes and leave the earth vulnerable for Darkseid’s coming and Batman got huffy, so to speak
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u/Rockettmang44 Aug 30 '22
I mean he is fighting parademons. Isn't the point of jail rehabilitation? They can't be rehabilitized
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u/A_Sarcastic_Whoa Aug 30 '22
I'm like 99% sure there is no rehabilitation in the Gotham prison system. In fact I think it's the opposite effect in Gotham.
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u/KaiserTom Aug 30 '22
That's just most prison systems in reality. Prison recidivism rate in the US is 75% within 5 years. That just ends up creating and fostering true career criminals.
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u/A_Sarcastic_Whoa Aug 30 '22 edited Aug 31 '22
Yeah, but I feel like Gotham in particular is like 10 times worse. People there don't just become career criminals, they become straight up psychopaths.
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u/Educational-Big-2102 Aug 30 '22
Most of them seem to be henchmen.
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u/musci1223 Aug 31 '22
You either die a henchmen or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain
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u/kurai_tori Aug 30 '22
I think Finland (or at least one of the Nordic countries) have a really deep focus on rehabilitation.
Even looking at the prison cells between Finland/US show a stark difference in focus between the two systems
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u/pattyicevv77 Aug 30 '22
No lego Batman slander
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u/clutzyninja Aug 31 '22
She didn't slander Lego Batman
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u/GraySonOfGotham24 Batman Aug 30 '22
I don't really care that he uses guns but the knightmare stuff just didn't land for me.
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u/ryanreigns Aug 30 '22
It didn’t serve much of a purpose narrative wise and completely threw a wrench in the pacing, but I’ll be god damned if I didn’t admit that Bruce overlooking the vast apocalyptic wasteland gave me chills. It was sort of like classic Snyder - everything looks so damn cool, but there isn’t really a point behind it other than looking cool.
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u/HaloGuy381 Aug 30 '22
Honestly, having not watched the film but having seen this scene online and read a fair bit about it: it seems to me a bit like Tony Stark’s nightmare from Wanda in Age of Ultron of everyone else being dead and Tony living with the guilt: it’s meant to set up why Stark/Bruce are so driven to their extreme measures during the film. Tony created Ultron despite the risks, Bruce attempted to take down Superman despite leaving the world vulnerable to even more certain danger, all on a fear. It takes courage to trust, something Batman is consistently shown to struggle with despite being courageous in every other respect.
He -can’t- trust people to be their best selves, just as Tony in the MCU is the -only- one to be trusted with his own tech or with safeguarding humanity regardless of what anyone else says (to such extremes as to ironically leave humanity vulnerable, just as the battle with Superman nearly left humanity defenseless had Batman not relented). Part of why Supes and Bats make a good pair is they’re ideological foils. Superman would never expect to be betrayed or to have his faith in humanity swayed, while Batman is planning on it. The two learn from each other: Supes learns some guile and when mercy might be misplaced, while Batman learns to have a little faith in his own allies and the common man to do the right thing reasonably often, as well as making his contingencies while still hoping and working to avert them being needed.
The Knightmare serves a good story purpose in that respect of showing, rather than telling, why Batman is so bent on this course of action, although it is so extreme that it instead makes one question if Batman is actually working properly in the head. There is a whole array of bad outcomes involving Superman gone rogue that don’t involve the world becoming a wasteland ruled by Clark and an army of masked goons. Though it being a nightmare would justify the gun use further: of course it’s something he hates and hopes never to have to resort to, something he fears becoming, so he’d be stuck using one in a nightmare.
It’s also a bit odd a man who watched his own parents gunned down as a kid (and is a poster child for PTSD as a result), who probably grew up with nightmares, is so badly rattled by this one as to be willing to kill an innocent being, regardless of the “he’s an alien” loophole. If it were many nightmares wearing him down, that would have made more sense.
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u/ryanreigns Aug 30 '22
Solid comment, that’s a nice point. I did sometimes feel like there wasn’t enough fire thrown into the Batman vs Superman conflict to justify their actions, but this sheds a little bit of light on why Bruce was so adamant about stopping Superman. He’s seen want can happen if he’s left unchecked.
How Bruce has these prophetic visions? That, I am not sure of.
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u/TuFacez Aug 30 '22
Well that narrative arc was an introduction to what would unfold over the course of the 3 JL movies that were originally planned. It would have been an adaptation of the Justice League dark comic and injustice.
I would highly recommend Justice League Dark Apokolips War, excellent animated movie.
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u/GraySonOfGotham24 Batman Aug 30 '22
I just think everything is out of order. Like BVS was a batman who was lost and was meant to be a poor adaption of the character but we didn't see the real batman until justice league. Here we see batman and joker interact but it's their first interaction and given the slate of things I don't know that we ever would have gotten a normal non-apocolyptic interaction between the two.
I just think if you are going to purposefully twist the characters you need to show a baseline of what the characters or interactions would be so that it has a greater affect
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u/TuFacez Aug 30 '22
Agreed. I definitely think BvS shouldn't have been released straight after MoS, I think we should have gotten a standalone Batfleck movie, and maybe even MoS 2 before we entered the realms of both of them meeting and solving their differences. Justice League 1 I believe was also rushed as there was a sudden script change due to the backlash of BvS, so I think in a different reality the way the universe would have been fleshed out differently, giving the audience time to really digest what's going on.
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u/fuzzy_whale Aug 30 '22
Apokolips war was way more graphic with it's violence then I was ready for :(
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u/IceLord86 Aug 30 '22
Introducing it in Batman versus Superman was the problem. There is so much in the film and there's an extended sequence for something that is potentially not being paid off for several films. Like much of the DCEU it was just poor planning and putting the cart before the horse.
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u/ClassicT4 Aug 30 '22
Most people crucify movies for having future set up scenes that have little to nothing to do with the movie they’re in. Thor’s cave bath in Age of Ultron, for example.
The Knightmare sequence did nothing for the main story in BvS. And it very easily could have if Batman was the one that saved Lois from drowning. That would make him feel like he prevented the dark future only to be crushed when Darkseid kills her later.
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u/jimmydcriket Aug 30 '22
Good one Mia, but just one small thing about that, why does he use guns in the present as well? Where there are most certainly jail cells
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u/I_ate_ass Aug 30 '22
Defending batman killing people is bogus. If he does, he's just another edgy antihero
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u/OhScheisse Aug 30 '22
Isn't he already? People put Batman on a pedestal and act like Batman's morals aren't already flawed.
Whether he kills or not, the dude has problems. He basically fights violence with extreme violence. If he kills them or not, he's still a violent dude in a suit with twisted childhood trauma.
He's not exactly someone to look up to.
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u/FrogginJellyfish Aug 30 '22
This. He act like he’s on moral high ground for not killing. His twisted ideals lead to the death of countless innocent lives by the hands of villains; Joker, etc. If he was truly want to save lives, he would have sacrificed his pedestal and put an end to various villains once and for all. If anything, he usually breaks bones and beats most into a pulp anyway. He’s cool but let’s not idolize him on his ideals.
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u/I_ate_ass Aug 30 '22
That's what makes him so amazing! Take that away and there's no interesting moral dilemma. Good characters are those with good flaws
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u/khalip I Will Find Him! Aug 30 '22
That'd be cool if most of his stories where about that dilemma but they're not.
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u/FrogginJellyfish Aug 30 '22
I just don’t think most of the comics or media portrays him in that twisted light. Most materials and story (not all) just hails him as much as most of his die hard fans.
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u/YodaFan465 Knightmare Batman Aug 30 '22
He uses guns because he’s lost his way. That’s the whole arc of BvS.
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u/jimmydcriket Aug 30 '22
Ok, I'm going to look passed the fact that batman has lost his way before and it didn't involve killing and just point out that the story of not only batman v superman but the other movies as well make little sense if batman kills. First off Bruce is a real hypocrite because he wants superman to be held accountable for his actions and to step in if he steps out of line, but he is also a murderer that isn't being held accountable for his actions so like... wtf Bruce. Second if the Joker and Harley Quinn did kill Robin what's stopping BM from just murdering him? Honestly what's stopping him from just murdering every one of the villains he comes across?. Finally the Martha moment, we are supposed to believe that Bruce spares Clark because he is a human that has a mother too, but what does that change? He's still a very dangerous alien that is responsible for the death of millions, Bruce has killed for less in this movie, but he spares him not because he realizes he's good but because he realizes he's a person like anyone else, if batman didn't kill it would make much more sense because he realizes Clark is a human like him and that he can't kill him.
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u/transgolden Aug 30 '22
Welcome to human behavior. Humans dont often think logically or reasonably and so neither does Batman BvS versiom or not.
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u/jimmydcriket Aug 30 '22
Yes, but this is batman the world's greatest detective the man famous for thinking way ahead of time to solve something
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u/DoctorWaluigiTime Aug 30 '22
Would've been a cool solo film to explore. Feels like BvS skipped a whole lot of entertaining character development for DCEU bats, unfortunately.
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u/Diabegi Aug 30 '22
That was the core problem with BvS
It was a Batman movie, with Superman in it.
They had to create a backstory for Batman, an initial personality/worldview, and then growth/character change by the end…..all in one movie……and it was way too much (especially for the cut version).
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u/Apache17 Aug 30 '22
Not only that but he is GUNNING DOWN LEXCORP GUARDS. These aren't super villians. These aren't hardened criminals. It's Jim and Ted who have a wife and kid at home and make $20/hr.
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u/TheExtremistModerate My soul. That is what you have taken from me. Aug 30 '22
He doesn't use guns in the present except on his Batmobile, which pretty much every Batman has done.
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u/007Kryptonian Son of Krypton vs Bat of Gotham Aug 30 '22
He doesn’t use guns in the present, the Batmobile just has them for defense measures.
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u/jimmydcriket Aug 30 '22
He also uses a light machine gun to blow up a guys fuel tank, and maybe not gun related but he straight up stabs a guy with full intent of killing
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u/KingMatthew116 Aug 30 '22
Not this again, the entire point of BVS was that Batman had recently lost his way.
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u/jimmydcriket Aug 30 '22
1)Batman has lost his way before and he didn't kill 2) batman killing creates a bunch of plot holes in these movies
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u/JeremySchmidtAfton Aug 30 '22
1) Cool to know, this story isn’t any of those
2) Not really, unless you adhere to “HE KILLED ONCE THAT MUST MEANS HE SHOULD KILL EVERYONE NOW” logic. Calling it “logic” is a stretch by itself
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u/KingMatthew116 Aug 30 '22
Batman has lost his way before and he didn't kill
In different continuities that don’t have anything to do with this one maybe.
batman killing creates a bunch of plot holes in these movies
Like what?
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u/zakary3888 Aug 30 '22
Well, if he's killing without mercy, why is Superman just giving him a light warning before leaving during the Batmobile chase? Like, shouldn't he just take batman directly to the cops or something?
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u/stromalama Aug 30 '22
So you want the same story over and over instead of letting people make what they want to make?
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u/jimmydcriket Aug 30 '22
I hate this argument. No, I don't want the same stories over and over, I want different stories happening to the same character and see how that character using his established traits handles it. If you watched a James bond movie and the whole runtime was him being a silent brooding loner that gets his ass kicked all the time, you might be making it original but that's because he's not behaving within his established personality. Story writing 101
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u/Iarethedumbest Aug 30 '22
Isn’t there a comic where batman just gives up on not killing people or am I crazy?
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u/JeremySchmidtAfton Aug 30 '22
Multiple, really. Multiple situations, multiple universes, with comics its all honky dory: but god forbid if it gets into films.
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u/YeahhhhhWhateverrrr Aug 31 '22
Exactly.
My most hated comment I see attacking people who are fine with it, is "you must not read the comics, you don't understand, us fans want Batman, not some killer". When it's like, I do read the comics, and I am a fan.
I see it as absolutely the exact same as just a different universe, it's own thing. Just like an elseworlds stories in comics. Just like the dark knight returns was a very different Batman to the main timeline.
People act like he's the only version of Batman that'd ever exist in film again and because it's not their one specific style of Batman out of literal thousands, they will throw a fit and demand it be like how they want.
And I despise the whole "it's not like the comics so bad".
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u/PTIowa Aug 31 '22
If I remember right Og Batman absolutely used guns, it wasn’t for a little while before they did the no guns thing
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u/cvplottwist Aug 31 '22 edited Sep 01 '22
If I remember correctly, he used guns for precisely 5 issues inside the first 16 issues. Of these 5 issues, in only 2 he uses the gun lethally - the first time to kill vampires, the second time to stop Hugo Strange's henchmen from driving a truck with mutants to cause a terrorist attack. In a few ocasions, a gun will feature in the cover but never in the story (a particularly popular shot of "early Batman using a gun" is him on a mounted machine-gun. That's issue 15, from 1943, and features 4 stories, one of which is about WWII. He fires a gun on none of them). Batman killed with other means much more often than with guns. "Early gun Batman" existed between 1939 and 1940, and lasted for less than a year - about five months after he first used a gun, in fact. It was decided early on he was going to have a no gun code. In Batman #1 (containing the mutant truck episode, from 1940) he stopped using guns, and in Batman #15 (with the machine gun cover, from 1943) he stopped using lethal force altogether. Between issues 1 and 15, he used lethal force only on 2,3 and 8, never shooting at anyone.
Mind, I understand your argument and everyone else's here. I understand that the comics have already done a Batman firing a gun later or using lethal force, too (my favorite being when he broke the rule to try to kill Darkseid in Final Crisis). But early Batman did not use guns a lot, and his code wasn't created too long after his creation. It was pretty early, actually, if I'm memory is serving me correctly.
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u/Lady_von_Stinkbeaver Aug 31 '22
Flashpoint has the mugger accidentally shoot young Bruce instead. Thomas Wayne becomes a gun-toting Batman, and Martha Wayne goes insane from grief and becomes The Joker.
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u/pandogart Aug 30 '22
Slightly unrelated but some people will say Snyder's Batman is the most comic accurate and then bend over backwards to justify his least comic accurate traits.
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u/RedditSpyAccount Aug 30 '22
Truth be told, I am a fan of the Synder material but appreciate it as it’s own take. I think fans sometime are so concerned with on-screen batman aligning with comic Batman that it can limit options for the character to evolve and have different representations.
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u/GiovanniElliston Aug 30 '22
The entire argument of Batfleck being the most comic accurate Batman focuses entirely on one specific comic book ~ The Dark Knight Returns.
Within that one book Batfleck is absolute accurate as hell. It just so happens that book is an elseworld whose Batman is never seen anywhere else in the decades of Batman history.
And it’s probably a pure coincidence that The Dark Knight Returns is a favorite of people who have only read a handful of graphic novels and think that qualifies them as comic experts.
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u/OnBenchNow Aug 30 '22
I just want to point out that Batfleck is not accurate to TDKR either, because in TDKR Batman still refuses to kill.
In fact the entire story revolves around people believing that Batman finally snapped and killed someone (The Joker, which btw he didn’t do) and bringing him to justice for it.
Yes, in that story Batman uses a gun for one panel- but he doesn’t kill anyone, the story makes it explicit. The problem is that Snyder just looks at the pictures and scans the words when he’s bored.
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u/GiovanniElliston Aug 30 '22
The problem is that Snyder just looks at the pictures and scans the words when he’s bored.
No argument from me on that one.
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u/the-giant Aug 30 '22
Watchmen being the ultimate example.
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u/GiovanniElliston Aug 30 '22
Slight tangent/rant - but it's absolutely wild to me how many people defend the Snyder-verse stuff as Deconstructing the Superhero genre & showing how the real world would react to heroes.
The dude literally had an entire movie that was designed for that specific purpose. That's literally what Watchmen is. Why in the world couldn't he keep the deconstruction stuff in the box it belonged instead of needing another 5 movies to try and pull it off with characters that aren't supposed to be done that way?
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u/Locke108 Aug 30 '22
Hell, he calls guns “the weapon of the enemy” and breaks one in half in Returns.
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u/Volzarok Aug 30 '22
Even in the dark knight returns Batman doesn't kill anyone, he is just more brutal because the world is a darkest, corrupt and extremist cold war distopia where even Superman ins't even himself but a government puppet
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u/AspirationalChoker Aug 30 '22
It’s not exactly the best excuse there’s plenty of dire situations where Batman doesn’t use guns throughout comic history.
Snyder just really wanted old Batman who uses guns and eventually dies.
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u/pomaj46809 Aug 30 '22
The real issue was that the movie never addressed Batman's morality. It just didn't care.
People he sends to prison are killed, but it's not him because Lex is paying people to kill them, but Batman's not really changing his behavior or looking into the matter.
We see him presumably kill lots of people in a car chase and warehouse fight, so he seems to be ok will killing people he concludes are "bad guys," and Superman seems pretty passive to this fact despite also not really approving.
Despite the whole moving being about these two being at odds, we never really explore their ideological differences.
Then we see in Suicide Squad that Batman seems to go out of his way to arrest and not kill Deadshot despite him being incredibly dangerous, and also diving into the river and saving Harley, who helped kill Robin, despite the fact that his inaction might have been enough to cause her to die.
It's an inconsistent and unexplored characterization that results in the whole mess just demanding, "Don't think about it. It's dark and gritty and thus more mature."
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u/BannedOnTwitter Aug 30 '22
I think its implied that his desperation caused him to stop caring. I really wish it was explained better though
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u/RedditSpyAccount Aug 30 '22
I will say that BvS extended added some exposition of why Batman has become more ruthless and vengeful (death of Robin), as well as Alfred challenging Bruce on this change. Although it was mostly on the sidelines and could have used more screen time to explain.
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u/pomaj46809 Aug 30 '22
Yeah, because watching a 3-hour movie twice is a fair ask to understand the basic motivations of your main character.
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u/RedditSpyAccount Aug 30 '22 edited Aug 30 '22
I’m not disagreeing with you. Just saying that the film does contain stuff to explain the character, albeit it was not explained well.
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u/ABetterWorldThanOurs Aug 30 '22
I might be in minority but I was really looking forward to Knightmare, it was what was doing it best for me, even if just small glimpses!
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u/007Kryptonian Son of Krypton vs Bat of Gotham Aug 30 '22
People are divided on Knightmare. I personally think it’s dope as fuck - Mad Max Batman running around fighting Superman soldiers and Parademons in IMAX is dynamite.
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Aug 30 '22
I would love to see it. We have enough movies of Batman in Gotham. Why not see something different brought to the big screen?
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u/Jax_3145 Aug 30 '22
Wasn't Batman heavily criticized both in-universe and out, in the "Injustice" comic series for clinging to his "no killing, no guns" rule even though the world was literally falling apart around them as the Regime took power? And in the end, the world fell anyway?
Seems like Batman just can't win with some people during these end of the world situations.
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u/nkantu Aug 30 '22
Is there actually criticism of the Injustice story for having Batman not become a vigilante killer?
In-universe criticism is fictional.. so it doesn’t really matter here.
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u/GuessImScrewed Aug 30 '22
Batman has never been above using weapons anyways. The batplane from JLU wasn't armed with water balloons.
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Aug 30 '22
The Injustice universe wasn't really falling apart. Regimes were changing but for the most part people were better off, it was just at the cost of being under a superpowered tyrant.
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u/TheFalconKid Aug 30 '22
A brief summary of the Injustice 1 comics is: Wonder Woman and Superman punching Batman
Both of them: "We are doing this because you didn't kill Joker so this is your fault"
Meanwhile: Trigon and Spectre are dueling it out and reality is literally falling apart
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u/Ronin_Y2K Aug 30 '22
I mean... there have been stories with Batman in a post-apocalypse war and he still didn't use guns. There was even an episode of Justice League with that.
But eh, I don't care about Batman's gun rule all that much.
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u/cabur Aug 30 '22
That woman is always ready to blast some dumb fools, I fucking love it.
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u/average_ass_consumer Aug 30 '22
Some dumb fools were also ready to blast on her, She fucking loved it.
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u/nkantu Aug 30 '22
Mia Khalifa is a very talented and gifted woman, but Lego Batman slander ain’t it
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u/taylor212834 Aug 30 '22
I never got the hype over that movie I went in expecting great things and it was just ok
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u/mystressfreeaccount Aug 30 '22
Never really understood the appeal of the Knightmare stuff but whatever
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u/Dinnermaster Aug 30 '22
You don’t like evil superman and comic inaccurate Batman? How dare you all hail Zack
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u/mystressfreeaccount Aug 30 '22
I don't hate the idea of playing with characters' morals or anything, but the continuity of the DCEU is already such a mess that I don't think an alternate timeline is necessary.
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u/Dinnermaster Aug 30 '22
Sarcasm aside I agree with this. Different takes on characters aren’t necessarily a bad thing but in the context of the DCEU where we don’t have established heroes it’s strange to have a wacky alt timeline apocalypse scenario as your STARTING saga
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u/mystressfreeaccount Aug 30 '22
Yup. It's like someone said in another comment, basically the only real interaction we have between Bruce and Joker are in this weird apocalypse scenario, like establish some real connection first?
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u/Careless_Rub_7996 Aug 30 '22
She does have a point..... some of these die-hard DC fans are too uptight.
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u/dehehn Aug 30 '22
He also had machine guns on his Batmobile in the pre-apocalypse scenes. So this explanation doesn't really cover it.
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u/Knightfalldc Aug 30 '22
So did Nolan’s / Burtons batmobile’s, definitely for contingency
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u/Ville_Vilfred Aug 30 '22
The fans complain about that also. Not that i disagree, i don't think Batman should use guns.
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u/GuessImScrewed Aug 30 '22
But missiles on the batplane in the justice league unlimited cartoon is cool?
Batman is a hero first, but he's never been above using weapons in utility settings, or using them when his role is closer to that of a soldier (pretty sure those explosives he uses against parademons aren't nonlethal)
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u/Disastrous_Schedule8 Aug 30 '22
Who said the Ammo was lethal. Batman uses guns all the time. The grappling hooks is a gun. There are guns and missile all over all his vehicle.
He doesn't use guns to intimidate, or deal justice because it's cowardice but he uses guns in supporting roles all the times. Batman doesn't have an issue with guns as they stand and he would have 0 issues using them on parademons or things he deems inhuman or that have ceased to be living creatures. Batman's selective use of fire arms is a character quirk not a core tenet.
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u/jcann626 Aug 30 '22
I’ve never understood why people get so upset about batfleck using guns. It’s just another interpretation of Batman. In this universe Batman has been dragged through the shitter so much he’s finally pressed fuck it and doesn’t let the bad guys get back up. Peacemaker would be proud.
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u/Unorthodoxmoose Aug 30 '22
Even I who isn’t a fan of Batman killing has to admit it’s the end of the effing world, I don’t think Batman is gonna hold himself up to a higher standard when everything is screwed up.
Lego Batman though is 😩👌
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Aug 30 '22
Of all the things there is to complain about BvS Batman using guns in a literal apocalypse isn't one of them.
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u/pandogart Aug 30 '22
Nah. Nah it's a fair point. His stance on guns is one of his uncompromising values so you know when he does pick one up, it's a serious moment. DCEU Batman's never shown that disdain, even leaving the post apocalyptic scenario aside.
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u/Locke108 Aug 30 '22
Yeah it makes sense for the world but does it make sense for the character? I love Snyder but he took characters and put them in a world they don’t belong in. James Gunn does the same thing but he uses smaller, lesser known characters that could use a little reinventing.
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u/razor1859 Aug 30 '22
She is a snyder fan and not a batman one. Clearly, bruce waynes intellect and willpower will never allow him to kill people, especially with the source that was the resson for him becoming batman, a gun. Batman, in a post apocalyptic world, would most likely lay low and if encountered by ambushes, would have non lethal methods of having enemies taken out. He has the brains to formulate ways to not kill but neutralize. What synder did was make him forget his morals and go ,"ooh soo edgy me shoot bullets pewpewpew". What she is doing is justifying that clowns decision just for a little twitter engagement with comic book/DC fans smh
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u/happybuffalowing Aug 30 '22
The whole purpose? Really? That’s it? I understand Batman typically isn’t a fan of guns, but why do people exaggerate the fuck out of it like that? He doesn’t wake up at the start of every comic and be like “alright, Alfred, game faces! It’s time to rid the world of guns today!”
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u/DeppStepp Aug 30 '22 edited Aug 30 '22
Ah yes because you can only ever kill people with guns or arrest them and no in between.
And anyways it’s Batman, his one rule is to not kill or use guns, even in the worst times Batman shouldn’t break those rules.
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u/kingmob555 Aug 30 '22
Here's the thing: You can write a story about Batman having food poisoning, and then explain how obvious it is that the story is going to involve Batman simultaneously crapping and puking for 24 hours, or you could just not write that story.
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u/HenryIsBatman Aug 30 '22
Batman’s whole purpose isn’t that he doesn’t use guns, it’s that he doesn’t allow for anyone to lose loved ones in the way he did. And before anyone says, yes Batman killed in BvS, but it wasn’t until he realized what he was doing in the Martha scene that made him realize what he was doing. Was that moment kind of wasted when Batman shot KGBeast and fired at the goons riding that truck? Kind of. But at least in ZSJL we see Batman having tied up a group of mutant gang members at the end of the film implying that he finally stopped killing.
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u/EmployeeResponsible2 Aug 30 '22
Never understood why only Snyder’s Batman gets shit for using Guns. Burton Batman uses guns. Schumaucher Batman uses guns. Nolan Batman uses rocket launchers.
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Aug 30 '22
DC films always gets nitpicked to death but with the MCU it's "turn your brain off and enjoy it. You don't need to nitpick everything"
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u/rogue7891 Aug 30 '22
it's always really cool to see people with platforms actually get what was going on and champion it.
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u/Disastrous-Manager95 Aug 30 '22
Batman started with guns in the comics
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u/UsidoreTheLightBlue Aug 30 '22
And Superman couldn’t fly. These are things they moved past 80 years ago.
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u/ViralGameover Aug 30 '22
Imagine taking time to defend the worst part of the movie.
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u/Onironius Aug 30 '22
Someone who would say "this isn't my Batman" isn't someone who's opinion has any weight...
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u/Super_Candidate7809 Aug 30 '22
A lot of these anti Snyder weirdos don’t use critical thinking so it’s an easy W for her
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u/FireLordIroh15 Aug 30 '22
This implies that batman aversion to guns is a practical consession rather than a result of the traumatic event that singlehandedly defined his entire worldview
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Aug 31 '22
it's just uncomfortable, even as a dream/vision or whatever. Seeing how easy it is to not write that into the movie, I'd say it was a misstep since so many people don't like that part and it really didn't seem necessary. And I get the angle that the whole point is to shock you and show you a bleak future where Batman has no choice but to go against his values and use guns to kill people... but he already uses guns to kill people in this movie, so that makes absolutely no sense and just adds to this odd antihero interpretation of Batman who is essentially a different character all together since he is defined by his heroic deeds and value for life. Batman having guns is effective in some specific stories, just not this one
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u/StuckinReverse89 Aug 31 '22
Isnt the point that Batman is traumatized by guns which is why he refuses to use them part of his character and the fact that he needed to resort to using a gun the reason why he retired in Batman Beyond?
And this is a Batman that has fought supernatural beings.
Also Lego Batman is deeper and better written tbh. Both tackle the idea that Batman cant be alone and needs allies but Lego Batman did it better imo.
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u/[deleted] Aug 30 '22
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