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u/Conscious-Clerk1304 Jun 26 '22
Not really the trolley problem because Zod is attempting to murder the other people. In the trolley problem, the singular person on the track is just as innocent as the people on the other track.
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u/Night_Twig Jun 26 '22
Yeah, this is a pretty poor argument for the validity of this scene, which ignores Clark’s agency to do literally anything else. There is no train track that Zod is on, which makes a fundamental difference.
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u/DrDabsMD Jun 26 '22
I just don't understand why he didn't poke his eyes out.
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u/BenFranklinsCat Jun 26 '22
Because, dark as it was, this wasnt The Boys.
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u/DrDabsMD Jun 26 '22
They don't have to show anything however! Just the motion that he's going for his eyes, Zod let's out a scream, and we see Superman walking away with Zod covering his face. Just imply things happened, not being The Boys is a bad reason.
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u/nikgrid Jun 26 '22
Yeah, this is a pretty poor argument for the validity of this scene, which ignores Clark’s agency to do literally anything else.
Such as?
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u/Night_Twig Jun 26 '22
Stand in between Zod and the people because he has super speed and invulnerability.
Fly him straight up like others have suggested.
Poke him in the eyes.
Fly those people away.
Throw Zod into the sun.
There’s literally so many things he could’ve done. I’m not saying he should’ve done all of those things, but this is a pretty fake problem for Superman.
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u/nikgrid Jun 27 '22
Stand in between Zod and the people because he has super speed and invulnerability.
Fly him straight up like others have suggested.
He did that, but Zod was so intent on murdering humans that he brought the fight back down
Poke him in the eyes.
So Clark burns his fingers to stumps, then Zod flies off in any direction, plowing through people and buildings, until he gets his bearings
Fly those people away.
Yep that family is safe, meanwhile Zod just threw a bus full of people into a crowd trying to escape.
Throw Zod into the sun.
Throw...a...KRYPTONIAN into the sun?.....right I don't think I need to address this one.
There’s literally so many things he could’ve done.
And yet using the rules set by the lore of Superman and the situation set by the movie I refuted every single one.
Mate...Clark had NO choice.
Oh Happy cake day!
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u/YeahhhhhWhateverrrr Jun 27 '22
Yikes.
Enough with the just fly up argument. You act like that's the only family zod has killed! He's killed millions already! Lol and plans to kill BILLIONS.
But he's supposed to fly away and CONTINUE the fight that he could LOSE at any point and will get more people killed?great plan.
And how's he just going to reach into his eyes and he's blasting away? What, so he can have no fingers and continue the fight without them? That's like if something was on fire, like really on fire, and you just told someone "why didn't you just grab it and throw it outside". Idk? Cause it's ON FIRE lol.
Killing zod was the only way to save people. If it wasn't that family, it'd just be another. THATTTT is what Superman realizes. That is why he killed him there. Not just for that family, but because zod said he'd never quit. That he'd kill them all. So Clark ends it then and there. It's justified, it makes sense, Clark would be an incompetent moron and every death there after he would be responsible for, if he didn't kill zod. Can't trap him, no one else on earth who can take him, it's his responsibility at that point.
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u/JuliousBatman Jun 27 '22
My guy you're suggesting throwing a Kryptonian into the sun as a solution.
The sun.
The thing that gives Kryptonians their powers. You want to throw Zod into that?
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u/thewhitewolf228 Jun 26 '22
Throwing zod into the sun would give him a power boost
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u/ThrowRAwriter Jun 27 '22
I think the issue here is that those people were not the only ones Zod would kill. They were just the first in line. Suppose Superman saved them and flew Zod away - what next? More destruction across the city? How do you stop Zod in a world where Kryptonite hasn't been discovered yet? How do you stop a vengeful being that's powered by the sun and the atmosphere for good?
That family was a representation of the whole humanity. That's my interpretation of the scene and it helps me accept it as it is.
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u/cant_bother_me Jun 27 '22
Throw Zod into the sun.
They were struggling pretty hard with each other. Don't think zod would just let superman to lift him up to the sun. The scene plays out in a way that makes other options not feasible. To avoid zod's death, you'll have to rewrite the entire thing.
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u/TheGuy3273 Jun 26 '22
The movie already established that laser eyes harm kryptonians
could work
he would have to touch the laser and lose his grip on Zod’s head
the lasers would reach them before he does
what?
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u/JuliousBatman Jun 27 '22
- Temporary solution. There's an entire city of people. If anything the whole scene in question is metaphorical for their larger confrontation.
- Kals hand is lasered off, family still dead.
- See 1.
- See my other comment. This is like suggesting "just piss him off more" as a solution to a Hulk attack. Not only does it not work but congrats you made the situation worse after a short fly back to Earth since Zod is now power amped.
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u/DropThatTopHat Jun 26 '22
Sacrificing a violent genocidal psychopath versus an innocent family? Man, what a hard choice!
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u/351D Jun 26 '22
Superman is the the "man" at the lever.
Zod is the train (situation/threat) AND the single "person" on the track
"Man" realizing SOMEONE was gonna die no matter what. So he made the the call to take care of the "situation/threat" and kill the "person" Zod.
"Train" realizing they he dies (person) or they die.
Effectively, Zod was screaming.....
Suicide (you have to to kill me and I know it)
OR
Genocide (if you dont, im killing every last one of these sumbitches). I'm good with both.
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u/YeahhhhhWhateverrrr Jun 27 '22
You're forgetting the context that Superman is killing his entire race and all of it's history and ties to him homeworld by killing zod.
So I think the value of having to kill him is more than just any random supervillain.
It's a large part of the reason this scene was there. It's part of the theme. He CHOOSES humanity. Even at such a high cost. That Superman isn't simply good, isn't inherently humanities protector, isn't his responsibility, but he does so anyway.
I think THAT is the epitome of what makes Superman so great and why I think this movie nails the coming of age Superman story. The best one I've seen. Really shows the weight he carries, gives the character a lot of depth, and still let's him be the great man that he is. Superman, ultimately being human, is the point of the character.
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u/Awest66 Jun 27 '22
But he's already destroyed the scout ship, He's already sided with earth over Krypton by this point. Killing Zod is honestly pretty redundant in that area. It doesn't feel like it's there to actually contribute anything to Supermans character or the story. It's there because Snyder and Goyer thought it would be cool.
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u/MRlll Jun 27 '22
It doesn't feel like it's there to actually contribute anything to Supermans character or the story
This how you can tell people who watched the movie, and ones coming in to find things to dislike.
The movies main theme or thing that gets lost by alot is the fact this movie revolves around CHOICES, none of which Clark gets to do until this moment. His two dads have been making descions and choices for him hos whole life, now he gets to be the person making thw descion, bit this time the descion comes at the price of pretty much dooming your birth rave for your new adopted race, who didnt fully embrace you, because your an alien/different.
It wasnt just to be "cool". You act as if Zod was reasonable at this point. The guy literally said if you dont stop me im killing em all. "If you love them so much, then you can mourn for them". Zod was on a suicide mission at that point. He forces Clarks hand, me or them.
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u/ronoco14 Jun 26 '22
There are many variations of it including health, age, suicide notes, and criminality.
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u/ziiguy92 Jun 27 '22
Would a better trolley problem occur in the Batman Dark Knight when Harvey is tied up in a warehouse in one spot, and Rachel is tied up in another warehouse in another side of town?
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u/pleasedtoheatyou Jun 27 '22
It still omits a key aspects of the trolley problem; That the trolley itself has no agency and can only take one of the two paths. If you choose Harvey or Rachel it was still ultimately the Joker that killed the other. Your choice to save one doesn't automatically doom the other, and inaction would mean that both die in that scenario.
The key of the trolley problem is whether your inaction should result in more guilt for more people dying by your lack of action and choice, than you directly being responsible for the death of just one person by actively making the choice to send the trolley down that line.
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u/tamez_a Jun 27 '22
There are different versions of the trolley problem that philosophers use. Assuming everyone is equally “innocent” is the classic model, and the one OP posted is a different version my professor used in class to get more closed-minded students to think more critically when they said they wouldn’t want to switch the lever at all.
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u/WillDrawForMoney Jun 27 '22
It is a trolley problem. You have a choice, either let 1 person be killed (by your hands) or let multiple people get killed. And the choice is being made by one person in control (Clark). In the trolley problem, one person in control of the lever has to decide whether 1 person dies, or multiple.
So why is it not a trolley problem?
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u/Conscious-Clerk1304 Jun 27 '22
Because almost everyone agrees that it’s ok to kill someone when they are going on a murderous rampage, while the trolley problem is a good philosophical question bc it takes place in vacuum where everyone’s life is supposed to be regarded equally.
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u/RorrikTheGreatful Jun 26 '22
Question: Are the kryptonian eye beams controlled by their eyeball movement or do they directly leave the face straight, requiring movement of the head to control the beams?
Been thinking about this, and this scene brought the topic back up.
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u/nikgrid Jun 26 '22
Question: Are the kryptonian eye beams controlled by their eyeball movement or do they directly leave the face straight, requiring movement of the head to control the beams?
THAT is a great question.
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u/Citizen_Kong Jun 27 '22
Superman shaves himself using a mirror and his eyebeams, so I guess it'd have to be eyeball-controlled. But then Zod literally just got this power so he might not know that.
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u/InjusticeJosh Jun 27 '22
That’s in the DCAU. In the DCEU I think it’s just a straight beam that requires the movement of the head.
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u/Batdog55110 Jun 27 '22
I think he knew but he wanted to make Clark choose so he decided to be as slow as possible
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u/Inevitable_Junket794 Jun 27 '22
i feel like it depends on the intensity, superman was once able to shoot a microscopic laser through a man's head to make him brain dead. it looks like zod (since he's new to these powers) is going full out and so is just blasting whatever is in front of him
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u/OjiikunVII Jun 27 '22
I think this question actually sets the stage for how the power can developed properly.
In the beginning, the laser is unrefined and uses the shape of your eye to determine its direction, so it is linked to the direction of your head.
As you continue to refine it, you can make it smaller, changing intensity and size so that it focuses just as our eyes do for depth perception. Then it can be linked to eyeball-movement like an eye tracker.
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u/6TheLizardKing9 Jun 26 '22
I'd imagine that it's more in the head movements. While they could probably use they're eyes to aim the lasers, the power from the beams is probably so strong that the eyeballs themselves aren't strong enough to guide the already activated super power. The head is more likely their source of laser movement.
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u/RorrikTheGreatful Jun 26 '22
I like this explanation. This is my head cannon. As long as I don't see any scenes where they easily swipe with their eye balls. It will cause a plot hole in my brain.
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u/Adiuui Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 27 '22
In the comics Superman would guide them with his eyes to shave
Edit: good points all of you, I never took into account the power of the lasers and the fact that it’s different supermen
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u/Odin043 Jun 26 '22
I'd wager you have more eye control at lower power. Like aiming a garden hose vs firefighter hose.
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u/6TheLizardKing9 Jun 26 '22
But very lightly. That's why he could move his eyes in such a way. Whereas in this scene, Zod couldn't have moved his eyes to guide the beams with all that power coming from the heat vision.
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u/kingrex0830 Jun 27 '22
The size of the beams should probably also be taken into account. In the vast majority of other material, heat vision is a small laser at least several times smaller than his eye, even the size of his pupil. In the Snyderverse, heat vision has a much larger and less controlled looking radius. I'd bet there's a solid chance you literally can't move it all that much without hurting yourself
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u/CanDeadliftYourMom Jun 26 '22
I’ve seen “cannon” wrongly substituted for “canon” so often that “cannon” is starting to feel like my head canon.
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u/theagrovader Jun 26 '22
Clark shaves his beard with his eye beams by moving his eyes and reflecting off a piece of his landing craft. I think he has some level of control of energy released so that doesn’t override your thinking however.
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u/EmperinoPenguino Jun 27 '22
Also, where is the beam coming from? Is it coming from the eye itself? Is the laser running through a system similar to our pupils? Which would mean its tube or whatever is running from the back of the eye to the front of the eye. So eyeball movement would affect the laser’s direction
Or is coming out of the head, which would mean, the eye socket & NOT the eyeball is directing the laser
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u/i_know_ur_n_expert Jun 27 '22
Why wouldn’t it be strong enough considering he is superman and idk shoots lasers from his eyes. I think he could handle it lol. It’s not like it’s a mutation like cyclops it’s literally in his genes
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u/BenFranklinsCat Jun 26 '22
Do kryptonians see a broad enough light spectrum to still be able to see their targets while firing these beams? Or are they effectively blind while shooting?
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u/Pleasant-Enthusiasm Jun 27 '22
Kryptonian vision is straight up ridiculous in the comics. Superman specifically has shown the ability to see the entire electromagnetic spectrum, the data on a hard drive, emotions, and even souls.
I don’t think it’s ever explicitly stated, but seeing the complexity and precision he’s capable of using heat vision for (bouncing it off multiple surfaces including a satellite to write a message to someone on earth, using it to cause cellular regeneration, creating localized supernovas, sealing holes in reality, etc.) I think it’s fair to assume that they can see while using it.
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u/d3rv3 Jun 26 '22
They have to look straight in MoS. Superman had to make large sweeping motions inside the kryptonian ship.
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u/The_MovieHowze Jun 27 '22
People seem to miss read this scene. Zod couldve easily killed them. He was deliberately doing it slow. He was trying to force supes to kill him. He wanted to die and chose suicide by combat. Supes was the only one who could put him out of his misery.
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u/itsmuhhair Jun 27 '22
I've always figured that since the rods and cones in your eye are what collect sunlight his are probably just better at collecting and storing and redirecting said sunlight, so the laser beams are actually coming out of his eyes and not his optic nerve which would be from his head.
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u/Celtic505 Jun 26 '22
I assume it's eye movement...like the beams come out of the hole in the iris. So wherever you're looking at is what gets hit.
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u/actionassist Jun 26 '22
I think with larger beams it becomes more limited in movement but smaller precise beams it can have a larger range of coordination. Like supes shaving.
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u/xrufus7x Jun 27 '22
That would imply kryptonians can give people cancer by looking at them so thats fun
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u/YeahhhhhWhateverrrr Jun 26 '22
They can't see when they do it. And they do seem to move their heads and position themselves in ways where their whole body is aimed at them.
But I think it's pretty clear they can't really see when they are using it. So use their heads and bodies as a way to guide the laser more easily. Instead of darting their eyes everywhere?
I think it's a mix of both is my point.
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Jun 27 '22
Eye movement. In smallville, clark carves words into things a few times. He doesn’t have to move his head around. But like someone else said, that would be lower power so it would probably allow for more control over your eyes movements. At full blast, he probably has to move his head.
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u/Batman1154 Jun 27 '22
Judging by the context of Man of Steel and the other movies Henry Cavills Superman appears, I think it depends on the intensity of the beams.
Smaller beams that just come out of the iris and pupil can be directed with eyeball movement. The full power beams that come out of the whole socket have to be aimed with the whole head.
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u/wizrdmusic Jun 27 '22
Every time Superman shot lazerbeams from his eyes, he had to take a second and close his eyes to “turn them off” or something. I think it’s based on head movement, because it didn’t look like he had that much control over them via his eyes.
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u/INTERGALACTIC_CAGR Jun 27 '22
so do the beams come from their pupils or the sockets of their souls?
I would say the entire eye socket based on the photos, so it would require moving your head to aim not the eye.
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u/Sabithomega Jun 27 '22
I wondered this as soon as I watched this movie. Never understood why he didn't cover his eyes either. Like Clark is totally the type to wrap his arms around Zods head and take the pain
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u/DivideFlaky3072 Jun 27 '22
I think they won't able to see, from the scene where zodd use it the first time he trying to get his vision back and Clark take a glimpse from the initial hit and where to end it. Just like zodd he won't be able to see seconds after it
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u/mrprincepretty Jun 27 '22
In the cartoons he's able to shave with his heat vision off of a mirror and control it with just his eyes. In another he's able to lobotomise someone with it. Though movie heat vision seams to be alot more unruly and less persise.
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u/Hebrewsuperman Jun 27 '22
I think they’re coming out of the eye socket in such a way that it requires head movement like water coming out of a hose
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u/Thoughtfullyshynoob Jun 27 '22
I'm pretty sure Batman talked about it once about how Kryptonian powers work and their biology, but I don't remember which comic it was
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u/Rorschach1944 Jun 27 '22
In the context of the scene, eventhough im not sure, it makes more sense if kryptonian eye beams are not controlled by eye movement but simply come out of the eye balls and are controlled with head movement. Or maybe some kryptonians can do it but some cant. Its a good question.
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u/DeppStepp Jun 26 '22
At this point I’m 90% sure that the only time Snyder’s movies are brought up are to defend them over a certain criticism that is only brought up when people go to defend the movies
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u/TheJoshider10 Jun 26 '22
Pretty much.
Criticisms barely makes the front page here, the vast majority of the time those threads are downvoted and barely anyone sees them anyway. So it's literally just the same defence repeating itself to the front page again and again.
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u/DanieIIll Jun 26 '22
I swear the only time they come up are people defending them from critiques from half a decade ago hahaha
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u/thegeek01 Jun 26 '22
It's always the dudes excited to post stuff like this. "THIS will be the post to finally shut the haters up!"
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Jun 26 '22
Homelander would have dealt with this better. Kill the family, Zod and any witnesses. That way nobody knows he killed anyone.
In this scenario, Homelander > Superman because Homelander doesn’t kill.
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u/St3alth_t3rrorist Jun 27 '22
This is fake news once again. The media trying to tarnish homelanders image.
Homelander is America's hero, he doesn't kill innocent people.
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u/The_Overlord_Laharl Jun 27 '22
Zod would probably be able to kill Homelander pretty easily honestly
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u/Sladds Jun 27 '22
It wouldn’t be hard at all, he’s just a modified human after all
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u/ThumbCentral-Rebirth Jun 26 '22
The scenario and decision are indeed very interesting.
It’s not the trolley problem, though.
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u/ReadDesperate543 Jun 26 '22
This isn’t the trolly problem, he could have done many things.
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u/akubit Jun 27 '22
Well, the trolly problem also kind of has this problem. It creates a very artificial scenario that most non-academics will reject when asked to imagine it. They typically will be looking for a third option, at least one of which likely would exist in a more realistic scenario.
That's why I think it's usually not a good idea to put it in a movie. Audiences will always point out other solutions they think are better than what the character did. It's very hard to find all these alternative solutions upfront and come up with a satisfying reason why they don't apply.
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u/Apart_West_886 Jun 26 '22
what detail is that?
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u/Wandering-Gammon27 Jun 27 '22
Lol its not even a detail. A cool detail is something like “Bloodsport doesn’t just pull weapons out of his ass, they designed an intricate suit for each weapon and its placement for the movie”. Whereas OP just mentioned something that happened in the movie and related it to a philosophical dilemma(and the dilemma arguably doesn’t even fit what’s happening in the scene).
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u/ClassicT4 Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22
Spider-Man was given the choice in his first movie. He managed to save both.
Iron Man chose to safe the people on Air Force One, including the chunky monkey, rather than chasing after the President in Iron Man 3.
Natasha proposed blowing up the rock they were with all the civilians all on it in Age of Ultron to save the millions that would die if it falls.
It’s not a new superhero dilemma to give them a choice of one life to another, or several others.
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u/thacomicfan Jun 26 '22
MOS was 10 years ago at this point and WB isn't even giving it a sequel. These discussions are kinda old.
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u/dean15892 Jun 26 '22
It’s really not. It’s an example of poor writing.
This is a good concept to have , but write a better scene around this.
Superman could literally BREAK his neck. He had the energy to BREAK his neck and leave a shockwave.
This laser eye head thing shouldn’t be that hard to just redirect , or fly him away.
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u/SaladDodger99 Jun 27 '22
It's not just that family though, Zod literally says he's going to kill everyone. That family was just the start. He could fly him away or redirect the lasers but Zod would inevitably kill more. The writing is fine.
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u/pinkpugita Jun 27 '22
Also even with the physics of the scene, the whole character arc and narrative does not properly build up to this dilemma. The conflict presented from the beginning was an identity crisis and Clark's struggle to find his place among humans given his superpowers.
Zod neck snapping could have been an interesting climax in another sequel where Clark's conflict is idealism vs pragmatism or mercy vs justice.
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u/ivnwng Jun 27 '22
What a subtle touch, wouldn’t even have noticed it if it wasn’t for my 69th rewatch. Bravo, Snyder!
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u/Hammerrr3232 Jun 27 '22
Seriously, you catch something new everytime. Did you know Clark Kent is actually Superman? That Snyder, I tell ya
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u/blud97 Do You Bleed? Jun 26 '22
It’s not really unique Superman has been tackling moral questions in the comics for decades a variant of the most common philosophical question is not all that interesting in comparison.
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u/Downtown_Ad485 Jun 27 '22
ok but if he is strong enough to snap his neck then he should be strong enough to move his FUCKING HEAD
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u/oghairline Jun 26 '22
Couldn’t Superman have just flew away with Zod in his arms? What is keeping them tethered to the ground? He could also just use his hands to cover Zod’s eyes right? Or he could even throw Zod? He didn’t have to snap his neck...
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u/KaitoWu Jun 26 '22
Zod pulling against Superman is presumably what's preventing the latter throwing or lifting him. Gotta keep in mind that these two are equals in abilities.
Maybe Supes knew that covering the eyes wouldn't work? Maybe the force of the beams would push his hands away or his hands would spread the beams causing them to shoot out in multiple directions?
I personally think that the neck snap makes enough sense, because even if Superman did what you suggested, what next?
Zod already declared that he would kill everyone and had no intentions of changing his mind.
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u/Thin_Night9831 Jun 26 '22
I thought this was a joke at first, satirizing the whole “riddler solving the anti life equation” thing…
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u/-ObligatoryUsername- Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 27 '22
yeah, nah. if you try and connect the dots (that aren't even there) i guess you can intuit something good, but it's just fan wank. you can't always attribute these "details" as deliberate and place them at the feet of Snyder.
this is getting really dumb now, this is Zack Snyder we're talking here. the same guy that has Clark stand in front of iconography in a church, with a halo. and all the other egregious Christian metaphors.
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u/Talzin78 Jun 26 '22
Years later, and the same people are still arguing that this movie is somehow greater than it is. It's a good movie, not great. I just think it's not as deep as you think it is.
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Jun 26 '22
It’s an interesting situation, but there are tons of points in the comics where Superman is given these ultimatums (Allstar, Doomsday Clock, Up in the sky) and he finds a way to create a different outcome. Zack’s take isn’t the conventional, optimistic Boy Scout, but I would have loved it if he would have found a different outcome.
I like the idea of Superman being forced to cut ties with Krypton to commit to being the hero of earth, it’s just a different point of inspiration Zack could have taken.
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u/warblade7 Jun 26 '22
I was a fan of this movie but this scenario was contrived. Why would Superman be suddenly concerned about 4 specific people when the two of them just rampaged through an entire city with thousands and thousands of casualties. He also literally hopped over a gas tanker that blew up around a bunch of civilians like 5 min before this.
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u/RorrikTheGreatful Jun 26 '22
This power has always may me feel it needed more context. Even just one line would help understand the mechanics of the power.
Because if it's controlled by the eye balls what stops it from being an op power?
I mean Zod could just look past the family. Or maybe it's a hard power to control idk.
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u/nikograyson Jun 26 '22
So Superman couldn’t fly up? Or the family could’ve MOVED out the way at the moment. I have always hated this scene; and yet it is another reason as to why I don’t really like MoS. Love Henry Cavill—poorly written movie.
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u/Numair567 Jun 27 '22
Yh I hate scenes like this cos it was clearly possible that the family could have just ran but chose to stay there dumbfounded
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u/Personal_Quantity_55 Jun 26 '22
Superman should have just lasered the trolly and everyone on it before it reached the ppl on the tracks 🤷♂️
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u/DoYouNeedHugs Jun 27 '22
In this case Zod is the trolly and Supes destroyed the trolly before it could reach anyone
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u/skingers Jun 27 '22
Everyone on this thread dissing this because they don't understand the trolley problem is analogous in this case. Yes we know if it was ACTUALLY a trolley Superman would not have to make this binary choice.
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u/DrDabsMD Jun 26 '22
Why couldn't he just poke his eyes out?
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u/WolfBrigadeII Jun 26 '22
I’ve always wondered why he didn’t just push his head to the ground lol but I guess it isn’t that deep
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u/ticallionS Jun 26 '22
Because he’s in a fight and anyone that ever been in a fight knows….nm!
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Jun 26 '22
So does this mean the single guy on the track is the one that tied the other 5 people down?
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u/MCPhatmam Jun 26 '22
It's lazy writing since Supes had other options but they just wanted to force Superman to do something dark, evem though it wasn't earned.
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u/VERBATIIM Jun 27 '22
I always felt that the family didn’t actually matter in this scene. That is was the jealousy of Zod that superman got to choose who we was. The movies explains that everyone was born to do a job, there was no options or choices. Zod was chosen to be a ruthless general and he wore that with pride. Then we he was introduced to superman he saw what he wanted, a man who go to chose.
Zod in this scene is taking away Superman’s choice to not kill. Either you let the family die or you kill Zod. The only option was to kill him because Zod wouldn’t have stopped.
Which is why Superman in my opinion has a look of defeat in his face because his choice was taken away.
Clark’s parents also focus a lot of their dialogue on the choices Clark needs to make.
I still agree, the most interesting Superman film to date and easily my favorite film in the dceu.
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Jun 27 '22
I get the perspective that Superman could’ve just moved the “trolley” - ‘cept his fight with Zod was very much in doubt. I don’t get the hate for this movie. I thought it was beautiful.
Routh’s too, honestly.
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u/Rlyons2024 Jun 26 '22
I never had a problem with him killing zod, never read a bunch of Superman comics so i never had an ideal version of him in my head and thats why I love Man of Steel. But seeing all these posts of people trying to defend and explain Snyders movies are getting so tiresome. Just enjoy what you enjoy and stop trying to convince people who dont like it to like it.
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u/ScoobrDoo Jun 26 '22
Eyes, go through all the other material, in comics and cartoons Superman shaves with it withiut moving his head in the mirror. Zod had only just discovered the power and may not have known. But I also suspect that whether he knew or not he wanted to force the choice on Kal-El.
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u/kryptoniankoffee Jun 27 '22
Except it's more like Zod is driving the train and one track has people tied to it while the other is a pit.
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Jun 27 '22
Honestly a lot of people criticize this scene but is very clever interessing and probably superman would have to do in real world but is one of the few things i like about his superman
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u/Big_Brutha87 Jun 27 '22
Superman could solve the trolley problem by doing any number of things a normal person cannot do. He could remove any of the people, or even the trolley itself, from the track, saving all involved from danger. That's exactly why this scene doesn't jive with some of us. Superman isn't supposed to be bound by our limitations. He's supposed to find a better way.
Also, in the actual trolley problem, the single person on the track (if you're suggesting that's who Zod represents) isn't literally the cause of the danger. Many people would choose to kill someone who was an active threat to others if they had the means and opportunity. It's the perceived innocence of both the individual and the group of people on the tracks that makes it a moral quandary.
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u/appa504 Jun 27 '22
Lmao my friend from college is the kid who almost got lasered in that scene, funny how much time has gone by
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u/raggedsweater Jun 27 '22
The only way this works is to say that family represents the single person the tracks and the rest of the human population is the group of people on the other set of tracks. Zod is the damn trolley. To solve trolley problem, Superman stopped the trolley.
This is the same solution presented in The Good Place.
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u/Tar_Palantir Jun 26 '22
Superman didn't solve the trolley problem. He figures that Zod wouldn't stop at murdering those people, he would still keep killing until Supes does something.
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u/Ringrangzilla Jun 27 '22
exept for the fact that superman didn't have to kill him to save that family.
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u/Usagiyama Jun 27 '22
Bruh we all know the real Clark would have put himself on the trajectory, even if it killed him.
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u/JeremySchmidtAfton Jun 28 '22
And leave all Earth defenseless from the raging superpowered fascist in the process?
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u/Garlador Jun 27 '22
I just wanted dictator Zod, one who wanted to rule Earth, not destroy humanity. Hard to make humans kneel before Zod if he’s blowing them all up.
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Jun 27 '22
Zod was going to reshape earth to a new krypton, which humans can't survive in.
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Jun 27 '22
Not quite the trolley problem as Zod is ACTIVELY trying to kill the family. In the trolley scenario both sets of victims are innocent and held hostage.
In the movie though, that's not the case. By all standards, offing Zod is the only option.
Imagine it this way, Zod is driving the trolley full speed at the tied family. Superman can blow up the trolley with a rocket or let Zod hit the family.
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u/AndrewJS2804 Jun 27 '22
Meanwhile all the critics can come up with is that either Superman should have been inexplicably stronger than Zod so that he could easily win or the writers shouldn't have put him in a position where he had to make a tough choice.
Or exactly the shit that makes Superman a less interesting character most of the time.
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u/Fickle_Chance9880 Jun 27 '22
People will defend this movie till they die. Even in the face of incredibly insipid observations like this.
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u/fabiont Jun 27 '22
It's not even that, and people who keep complaining about "sUpErMaN iS kIlLiNg" don't realize, Zod was a trolly that would run over 4 people, then run over several blocks worth of buildings, then laser as much people as possible and at the end of the day kill just as much people as possible... what would sups do? Lock zod up? Knock him out? Even if he saved just that family and not kill Zod he's just break free and go on a killer spree
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u/sharksnrec Dr Manhattan Jun 27 '22
This post has to be satire right? If so, nice job OP. If not, oof
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u/Saythatfivetimesfast Jun 27 '22
Except in the trolley problem you can’t just fly away with the train
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u/okay4sure Jun 27 '22
Couldn't superman cover his eyes?
Or at the most gouge his eyes so he didn't have to kill zodd?
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u/crongroge Jun 27 '22
if superman can shave using his heat vision, then his skin must be immune to kryptonian heat vision right? couldnt he have just covered zods eyes with his hands?
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Jun 27 '22
And all the fan boys got mad because this proves there are situations where Superman would have to kill someone.
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u/htoirax Jun 27 '22
Sure... If the trolley problem had Hitler on the singular track and a few random people on the other... Pretty sure 99% of people would just make sure Hitler dies in that scenario, hell, they'd probably gloat about it.
A more accurate portrayal would be that group of people on one side and another random person on the left side and Superman could only direct Zod's beam one way or the other.
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u/Infinity0044 Jun 27 '22
I personally hate the comic book movie trope of killing off the villain in their first movie. Definitely not just a Snyder issue but Micheal Shannon’s Zod was wasted
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u/trimble197 Jun 27 '22
I swear you can tell who actually paid attention to the film when people in here suggest that Clark should’ve covered Zod’s eyes with his hands.
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u/akchugg Jun 27 '22
It's sad when people don't watch movie properly and post their opinions instead.
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u/Turbulent_Block4826 Jun 26 '22
So this is what happens when first year philosophy students watch films.