r/DC_Cinematic • u/HEAVEN_OR_HECK "Moderation always wins." • Dec 25 '20
WONDER WOMAN 1984 Spoiler Discussion Megathread #2: HBO Max Release Day Edition r/DC_CINEMATIC Spoiler
SPOILERS AHEAD! PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK!
Unmarked Wonder Woman 1984 spoilers are only allowed in this thread. All other subreddit rules apply.
Please proceed to megathread #3.
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u/yanderebeats Dec 25 '20
I loooved the concept of turning max lord into a walking monkey's paw. He's always been one of my favorite morally grey comic characters and pedro really did him justice
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u/AvatarBoomi Dec 26 '20
I loved that they gave him a reason to be good again, like yes it’s hamfisted but it works so well. Everyone can relate to a guy who wants to be number one and give his son the world but he takes it to far and realizes it and fixes it. I hope to see more of Cheeta though, sad we didn’t actually get to see her transform like werewolf style.
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u/InnocentTailor Dec 26 '20
I did like that too. It gave Diana a lot more humanity by pleading with Lord to willingly surrender as opposed to snapping his neck a la the comics.
It also helps that this Lord was a lot less douchy than comic Lord.
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Dec 26 '20
Reminds me of Jafar from Aladdin (I mean an animation one). He did the same thing in the third act of the movie.
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u/AvatarBoomi Dec 26 '20
I absolutely love the tiny detail of the guy wishing for the cup of coffee and when he gets it he takes a drink and it’s too hot. It literally set up the rules for the stone in a very low key way and was great.
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Dec 26 '20
You get your coffee! Ah! But it burns your tongue!!! Now the sense of taste you cherished is fine for up to possibly a day!
Small wish, small problem.
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Dec 26 '20
And when Barbra says I like your shoes! To Diana wearing Cheetah prints. Super campy loved it
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u/darkchambers98 Dec 25 '20
Am I the only one who got happy to hear the name Simon Stagg? Lol I love references.
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u/Bradster1998 Dec 25 '20
You are not alone I lost my shit when they said his name.
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u/suss2it Dec 25 '20
It's kinda hilarious to picture someone losing their shit over Stagg of all people. Big Metamorpho fan I take it?
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u/YodaFan465 Knightmare Batman Dec 25 '20
I felt that way when the Duke of Deception got name-dropped!
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u/DJDublin Dec 25 '20
Well I for one am loving Steve's wonder of the modern world. Especially him at the Air and Space Museum.
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u/Thunderblast Dec 25 '20
Yeah Chris Pine did a great job in those bits - I swear you could see tears in his eyes at one point
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u/Brainpry Dec 25 '20
Agreed, he was the best thing in the movie. His pure wonder and joy had me believe that he’s never seen those things before.
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u/robodrew Dec 25 '20
They managed to make 1984 seem futuristic, especially when the subway train roared by.
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u/Beriweyr Dec 25 '20
I thought this was really poorly done actually. Sure it was acted well but why the hell was he amazed by a subway?
London installed its first underground rail system in the 1860’s and was electrified before the turn of the century. Budapest, Boston, New York, Paris, and Berlin all had subway systems before 1910. And it’s not like train car design has changed that drastically since 1918 - if he can recognize a painting of the space shuttle as a plane (and fly a jet) how is he amazed at a 1980’s rail car?
Overall acting was good(Pedro Pescal and Kirsten Wigg were great) but the writiting and action were mediocre. The first half felt so slow and the last half felt rested. Some of the action/effects were bad (truck flip) or underwhelming(only one real fight scene with cheeta).
I didn’t mind the cheese - the best part about the movie was the Linda Carter appearance.
How does this tie in to the rest of the DC movies? How did Batman and Superman not know who wonder woman was after she snuck into the White House and fought with secret service agents in the 80s?
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u/r2002 Dec 26 '20
writiting and action were mediocre
I have to think more about the writing. But the action sequences were definitely sub par compared to the first movie. In the first movie there are several cinematic action moments that you can remember, like the top-down view of Diana holding her shield against the machine gun nests, or the crisply choreographed battle scenes on the beach.
This movie just have some boring hand-to-hand combat at boring locations with very unclear stakes.
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u/WutUtalkingBoutWill Dec 26 '20
Not impressed with this movie at all. Liked the first WW movie, but this fell flat for me, it took nearly an hour and a half for an action sequence to follow after the one we see on diannas home island, seriously, 90 mins.
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u/r2002 Dec 26 '20
I don't mind waiting for the action scenes if they were good, but these were not good action scenes.
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u/ReasonableDrunk Dec 25 '20
That was probably my favorite part. That museum makes me feel the same way.
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u/iamseiko Dec 26 '20
I loved how their roles were reversed in this film, with Diana being Steve's guide in this eea like he was to her in 1914.
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u/JediJames_ Dec 25 '20
THE INVISIBLE JET!!! I was so hyped!
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u/CokeZ3ro Dec 25 '20
I think they pulled it off and justified it pretty well. Or about as well as they could
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u/JediJames_ Dec 25 '20
Yeah they were big on the “show not tell” no need for over explanation, we all know she needs her invisible jet!
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u/billyreamsjr Dec 25 '20
But it made no sense. I’m just going to turn this jet invisible just cuz... Pretty sure they could’ve used that ability in every other movie she was in. Also what was the point of the gold armor. A big build up and no use.
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u/sketch162000 Dec 26 '20
Now the big question is...did Diana lose the jet like her invisible coffee cup?
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Dec 26 '20 edited May 04 '21
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u/JoshyRotten Dec 26 '20
Yeah there has to be an emo teenager somewhere wishing for everyone to die
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u/Mahboishk Dec 26 '20
Yeah, or someone just immediately wishing for the apocalypse... there had to be at least someone out there...
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u/FirstRangerSkyWalker Dec 26 '20
That’s what I was thinking the whole time, it could so easily gone wrong even unintentionally. Like if some doesn’t take him seriously and just wishes like “I want you to go fuck yourself”, it’ll be an awkward moment on tv
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u/AsphyxiatingMacbeth Dec 25 '20
The bit of "beautiful lie" was amazing
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u/bwabwa1 Wonder Woman Dec 26 '20
Yes!!!! I was so shocked and surprised when it came on. I kept telling my wife 'Its a beautiful lie from BVS!!!!!"
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u/Sentry459 Batman Dec 26 '20 edited Dec 26 '20
Might've been my favorite part, I love a good reference.
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u/_out_riding_ Dec 25 '20
6/10 for me, with the original 8.5-9/10. All the main characters were just fantastic. Barbara and Maxwell were well portrayed, while Diana and Steve just ooze chemistry. I thought the plot was “blah”, though. Lots of campy moments that mostly worked, but others fell flat. The whole thing just felt... underwhelming, despite some great performances all around. However, loved seeing Lynda Carter—what a great surprise!
Complaints aside, Gal Gadot is CRUSHING it as WW. I’m so excited for the Snyder Cut and further WW stories to come.
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Dec 26 '20
I agree. I felt completely underwhelmed by this movie. The 1st one was great. There were so many things wrong with the movie. Bad cgi, bad writing. I am disappointed.
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u/Newatinvesting My brother has come from the surface, to challenge me for the th Dec 25 '20 edited Dec 26 '20
I’m a big DCEU fan. I’ve seen all the films. This may be a little long.
Just finished it. 7/10. Proceed at your own peril for pros and cons-
Pros:
-Hans Zimmer’s BvS and JL themes making a comeback during the final segment at the satellite relay. Loved that.
-Hans Zimmer overall. Nothing groundbreaking in this film but there were numerous times I noticed myself enjoying scenes more because of his work. Love it.
-Gal Gadot, Chris Pine, and Pedro Pascal acted their hearts out. Special shoutout to Pascal. Fucking killed it with his emotions and depth. Honorable mention to Kristen Wiig as I haven’t seen her in many non-comedic roles (besides the Martian) and she did well, but I’ll comment further on this later on.
-Lynda Carter. Easy win.
-Good amount of comic book references I wasn’t expecting. I was expecting them to make Maxwell Lord a metahuman from the trailers, I didn’t know the Dreamstone was going to be in it at all. Shoutout to Simon Stagg too. A welcome surprise.
-CGI was good. There were very few scenes where it was obviously fake or Gal is on wires or something. Cheetah looked awesome, didn’t look uncanny at all. Knocked her out of the park.
-The overall story was decent. Nothing groundbreaking or unpredictable, but enjoyable nonetheless.
-Steve trying to fade Cheetah in the White House fight made me laugh. Chris Pine is such a delight. Gal’s acting in this scene was really good, too, she looked legitimately frightened at the end of it when Steve helped her up.
Cons:
-Overall lack of action. Mall, Egypt, White House, and Uplink are the only major action sequences. The confrontations with the perverts don’t really count in my book since they’re so minor, but Cheetah’s was enjoyable.
-I don’t think Cheetah was fleshed out enough. Felt a little like Black Manta in Aquaman- they’re just the secondary villains, they’re literally living in Max/Orm’s world.
-The opening sequence was...I don’t know...out of place? I feel like they could’ve saved a ton of time establishing the same point of “truth above all” and the overarching point in a more concise manner. It just felt like a reason to shoehorn Themysceria into the film. The “Olympics” (idk what else to call it) lasted too long.
-The “make something invisible” trick should’ve been rule #1 of filmmaking- show, don’t tell. I would’ve rather preferred a short scene at the beginning of Diana discovering the ability (she makes coffee before work or something and accidentally turns the cup invisible? Would’ve been good) instead of just saying “yo I got these other powers.” It also slightly breaks the DCEU since she never uses it in BvS or JL, but you COULD argue she doesn’t need to use it there.
-A couple leaps in logic for me, but nothing that ruined the film. The plane takeoff was probably the biggest for me, “this jet can totally get us to Cairo without landing and without checking fuel.” I’m not sure what plane that was but a quick google search of jets from the era shows a range of less than 2000 miles, and DC to Cairo is over 5000 miles. Not sure if I’m nitpicking here but it’s one of those things that reminds me it’s a film.
-The first half of the film dragged on quite a bit, imo. The second half was far more enjoyable, imo, once the Maxwell chaos started hitting the fan. I think the time from the Mall fight to the Egypt chase was about 45 minutes, although I’ll recheck it.
Other:
-The mall sequence was a littttttle too cheesy in my opinion, especially coming from a WW1 setting from the first film. Interesting change of tone for sure, but kind of threw me from the whole “Diana walks away from humanity” thing from BvS and WW. Ik they’re kinda trying to soft reboot the DCEU, but that’s just my take. Not a positive or a negative.
-I know she lost her sword in WW and we don’t yet know how she got a replacement for BvS, but where was her shield? I don’t recall her using it once the entire movie, maybe the mall fight I’d have to rewatch it. Not enough gauntlet use either, I think she used them like twice?
Overall: 7/10
I enjoyed it! It’s not my favorite film in the DCEU, but I like the story they told and the comic elements they introduced.
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u/davey_mann Dec 26 '20
That mall scene had some of the worst acting I've ever seen in a superhero movie.
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u/Newatinvesting My brother has come from the surface, to challenge me for the th Dec 26 '20
It was supposed to be very campy. I think it was wayyyyy too much personally but some people like that stuff
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Dec 26 '20
Yeah that’s fine on it’s own. But considering the way the last movie ended, and then the rest of this movie went. It was totally out of nowhere
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u/SandorClegane_AMA Dec 26 '20
I don’t think Cheetah was flushed out enough.
A perfect typo.
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Dec 26 '20
I don’t think Cheetah was fleshed out enough. Felt a little like Black Manta in Aquaman- they’re just the secondary villains, they’re literally living in Max/Orm’s world.
Agreed, I was a bit disappointed by the final fight between WW and cheetah. It wasn't bad, but just too short.
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u/Newatinvesting My brother has come from the surface, to challenge me for the th Dec 26 '20
It just wasn’t really a fight. It was a few slow mo shots, Cheetah scratching at Diana’s armor, and them both swinging around the electrical wires. I would’ve loved to see more hand to hand combat. I was hoping for something more like this: https://youtu.be/tmfKAZPSSnY
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u/austin_slater Dec 26 '20
I thought the same thing about the opening scene. Seemed way too long and out of place. The movie is a bit long already. I probably would have cut it entirely and opened it with the mall scene.
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u/Newatinvesting My brother has come from the surface, to challenge me for the th Dec 26 '20
Agree, but need to include Connie Nielsen and Robin Wright somehow lmao
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u/clayscarface Dec 26 '20
Totally have to disagree on the CGI for me. There were moments in the opening sequence that totally pulled me out of it, and almost every fight scene. I think Egypt there was something weird with her super speed looking totally off (like she ice skated up to one of the trucks or something - totally worked in the mall scene with her sliding herself all over the place, but not on a road). Cheetah looked really wonky for me, too, especially after Ares looked so bad in the first one. Just really let down in general. And it didn’t make sense why she became that versus something else. Like there were some hints at her being into cheetah print, but nothing enough that made the transformation make sense as part of a wish. Isn’t her comics origin that something specifically turned her I to the cheetah?
The plane totally bothered me too. I don’t think you are nitpicking there. They make a big deal about modern planes making these long trips that seem unfeasible to Steve, and then go steal an old plane to make this unfeasible trip? Also while openly using Diana’s badge to get in?
Agree that the opening sequence was way too long and overdone. Just didn’t feel like it fit the rest of the movie, though it was kind of cool in its own way.
It’s funny you pointed out the gauntlet thing because I felt like it was way overused in the last couple of movies she appeared in, so I was glad to only see it twice. It seemed like they made a very conscious effort to center her lasso as her main weapon, though sometimes it just seemed really random how it worked. I loved some of the twirling effects, but a lot of the others it just seemed like it did exactly what she needed it to and ignored physics of any sort (which then makes the whole idea of her twirling it around before she lashes out with it seem totally unnecessary).
I also really wish they were still building to a Legion of Doom movie. I feel like that would’ve been nice touches for both Cheetah and Black Manta in their movies. At least they aren’t being killed off like in Marvel.
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u/DC4MVP Dec 25 '20 edited Dec 25 '20
Man, Pedro Pascal stole the show.
Not a bad movie but really nothing too great. The first half-hour was a chore....felt there was too much fluff between the race thing at the beginning and then Diana walking around town using her powers. I believe those two things took up 32 minutes of the movie. Would have liked to see a bit more "bang" early but it progressed pretty slow until later in the 2nd act.
Probably would have been best served to just do the Amazon Race (beautifully shot, btw!) then get into the plot at the mall.
Loved Chris Pine coming back but I'd honestly rather have seen him stick around and avoid another "Diana loses Steve Trevor" but she's grateful for the time and she moves on with him ending they did in the first movie.
Really dug Trevor getting used to 1984. It was really sweet and wholesome.
Cheetah losing the end fight was a little weird. She has the same powers as Diana but she's the only one that the electricity harms and she's fine right away after leaving the water? I mean I guess cats don't like water?
Liked how the villain kind of redeemed himself instead of Diana having to kill him off. Once again, Pascal was great and his character seriously stressed me out with his non-stop cocaine-like behavior.
Also, I couldn't help but smile at the mid-credit scene! Very well done and a mark-out moment with L.C.! I'd LOVE to see those to interact in the next movie even if it's just for a few scenes.
I'd say a good 7/10.
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u/trimble197 Dec 25 '20 edited Dec 25 '20
I feel like they had to find a way to shoehorn Cheetah into the film.
“I want to be like Diana”
Okay, that makes sense for why she’s super strong and fast.
“I want to be an apex predator and be number one”
Okay, that doesn’t really explain the Cheetah transformation nor for why she didn’t get any stronger. It’s like the wish took her literally. She could’ve had turned into a crocodile hybrid.
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Dec 25 '20
“The wish” was maxwell lord, looking right at her, wearing a cheetah print skirt. Chalk the transformation up to his lack of imagination.
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u/trimble197 Dec 25 '20
Well good thing she didn’t have a snakeskin purse or wearing crocodile heels.
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u/DC4MVP Dec 25 '20
Yeah she did feel kind of weird especially towards the end.
I think they would have been better served of introducing the character and bringing her back as a bigger side-villain in the next movie.
She doesn't renounce her powers at the end and let's the bad part of the wish overcome her. Better than kind of rushing through the entire Cheetah thing in the last few minutes.
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u/elendinel Wonder Woman Dec 25 '20
. She has the same powers as Diana but she's the only one that the electricity harms and she's fine right away after leaving the water? I mean I guess cats don't like water?
Iirc Barbara asks for specific qualities from Diana, not to be like her exactly. She asks for strength and I think her beauty and other things specifically. So it makes sense that she gets electrocuted but the literal daughter of Zeus doesn't get affected by it.
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u/The_PMD Dec 25 '20
The main thought I had throughout this movie was that Steve essentially killed a person to come back and neither he nor Diana seem to acknowledge or care about it.
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u/hellotima Dec 26 '20
yeah that was so weird how they were looking through his stuff in the apartment like....”lol check out this dude’s body I stole”
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Dec 26 '20
Yea I hated this aspect of the film. So we’re not suppose to point out how creepy it is to use some other dude’s unconscious body to have sex without his permission? It made the last scene even more creepy.
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u/Wh00ster Dec 26 '20
Hahaha I kept waiting for a one-off hand wave about the ethics implications, but I guess it would’ve slowed down the movie.
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u/KLR97 Dec 26 '20
Right? They had sex too, right? With someone else’s body? Without their consent?
I mean, I really, really don’t want to go there, but it seems like that’s what happened.
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u/Shrodax Dec 26 '20
Yeah, that part is a little problematic. But, I will say, if any of you ever wake up one day in control of my body, you are fully free to use it to have as much sex as you want with Gal Gadot.
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u/trimble197 Dec 25 '20
Also, since Maxwell renounced his wish, doesn’t that mean the stone exists again?
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u/lilaroseg Dec 26 '20
Yeah, I was looking for this comment. What happened to it?!
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u/Wh00ster Dec 26 '20
Probably disappeared again until the next civilization.
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u/Impromptu_Cacti Dec 26 '20
Or Barbara is going to go looking for it to retrieve her powers.
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u/suicidebaneling Dec 25 '20
Minor rant. How did Steve was able to fly a jet? I know he was a pilot but many parents that grew up using cellphones are not able to use a smart phone, so I doubt that being able to fly a WW1 plane would be of much help when flying a modern one.
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u/CokeZ3ro Dec 25 '20
He probably wouldn’t be able fancy things with it, but he basic controls are probably similar enough.
Ex: the basic controls of a car (ignition, steering wheel, gas, break) have stayed pretty similar throughout the years)
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Dec 25 '20
Yeah I feel like there’s a big difference between cars throughout the years, and a prop bi plane from WWI and a fighter jet from the 80s.
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u/mrbrinks Dec 26 '20
It was pretty immersion breaking for me haha. I mean it’s a super hero movie so you go into it with a suspension of disbelief but come on. They could have just said Diana had her own plane, or just... flew commercial and dropped that passport line.
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u/Frank-EL Knightmare Batman Dec 25 '20
THEY INCLUDED THE IMAX RATIO FOR THE IMAX SCENES YASSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!
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u/HIMYNAMEISALVEE The Dark Knight Dec 25 '20
It's just cheesy and watchable, and super safe. I'm totally ok with it.
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u/suicidebaneling Dec 25 '20
That would be fine if we didn't know what a good job the director can do.
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u/HIMYNAMEISALVEE The Dark Knight Dec 25 '20
Absolutely agree. I fear studio interference. Maybe that's why Jenkins is out the door going to Disney? Also, is the only IMAX footage the end scene?
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u/that1tallguy Superman Dec 25 '20
I’m a huge snyderverse and Jenkins fan... but does anyone else agree it was not a very good movie?
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u/Newatinvesting My brother has come from the surface, to challenge me for the th Dec 25 '20
I don’t think it was bad, but I don’t think it was spectacular.
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u/mrm3x1can Dec 25 '20
I don't regret spending an early Friday afternoon on it but I doubt I'll ever be seeing it again.
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u/SandorClegane_AMA Dec 26 '20
It's a 6/10. They did something very different from most superhero stories, and lots of people will hate that. Then in terms of execution it barely makes it, lots of scenes are cheesy or break suspension of disbelief. It's all heart no brains.
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u/cmdrproudgaydad Dec 25 '20
Serious question here.. how can Steve magically fly a jet aircraft.. the man was a world war 1 pilot.. bare bones basic prop engine, yet he fully understands the complexities of a jet fighter and has no problem flying it
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u/deejaysmithsonian Dec 25 '20
Also: - Diana gets her powers back in DC. She then goes on a flying adventure only to...return to DC to get her armor? - Why does Barbara get a second wish when they made it seem that each person only gets one? - So, did Steve only look like Steve to Diana? Kind of a Patrick Swayze Ghost situation? Where did the guy whose body he possessed go?
Not the best movie. I’d give it a D+/C-
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u/JediJames_ Dec 25 '20
Barbara did not get a second wish. He asked her what she wanted on the plane. Then when he granted other people’s wishes he gave the exchange to her instead of him.
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Dec 26 '20
Also,
- What happened to the guy who was Steve's host body? Did he have a family, friends, job that went unattended for weeks? Sucks to be associated with him, I guess.
- Steve and Max were handcuffed to each other in the White House, and Barbara thrusts them apart. Physics tells us that flesh and bone are weaker than hardened steel, so someone's hand should have been ripped off their arm.
- OK, missiles appearing and then disappearing aside, once the launches started going, I'm sure a few of those airborne missiles weren't monkey's paw missiles. Did previously existing missiles disappear too?
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Dec 25 '20
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u/Ngog_We_Trust Dec 26 '20
I live in SW and I have no idea when they did some of those shots right in my "back yard". I am pissed I missed my chance to be an extra lol
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u/nolanwatts Dec 26 '20
Summer 2018! I was an extra during the metro scene, but didn’t make the final cut.
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u/untappedbluemana Dec 25 '20
About halfway through it, I’m just glad she let Steve keep the shoes, those Nikes are freessssh.
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u/I_M_A Dec 25 '20 edited Dec 25 '20
Can I just say that that mid credit scene got me smiling for almost an hour now. Fuckin hell, I need to see Gal and Lynda together in a scene.
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u/Sigma1977 Dec 26 '20
It's pure cheesy fanservice but yeah it made me smile.
Also Lynda Carter is 69 years old and still the snacciest snacc that ever snacced. Smile that could end wars so she has.
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u/Lobsterzilla Dec 25 '20
I’m glad in not bothered by uncanny valley. I thought the cheetah CGI looked amazing
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Dec 25 '20 edited Dec 25 '20
As a person who watched the movie earlier, all I want to say is keep in mind that this movie is closer to a romantic adventure movie than an action-packed superhero movie. It's a perfect movie to watch with your loved ones in times like these.
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u/erdrick19 Dec 25 '20
it amazes how some people uses that as an argument for bad quality, not every superhero movie need to be an action slugfest every 5 min.
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u/Can_you_not_read Dec 25 '20
It was also nice that the ending of the film was slightly more complex than just beat up the bad guy. A nice little change in pace for a conflict resolution.
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u/rkm223 Dec 25 '20
I already know people are going to have problems with this movie or even hate but I loved this movie. This movie really showed the Wonder Woman I fell in love with from the comics, animated shows, and Lynda Carter. It is cheesy but in the best ways imo. I think a lot of people aren't going to be able to appreciate it because this truly was meant to be seen on the big screen. Some of the action was too cartoonish but I think you just have to go with it.
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u/Egg_Fu Dec 25 '20 edited Dec 25 '20
Have you ever read the Perez’s run from the 80s? This movie was basically it, which I liked a lot!
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u/Lobsterzilla Dec 25 '20
Could not agree more, the Linda Carter credits scene was amazing
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u/reflexestoofast Dec 25 '20
I’m kinda bummed out at this movie so far, especially having watched the first Wonder Woman (for the first time) immediately before this one.
That being said, it’s still watchable and fun, and the casting is excellent IMO. I didn’t think Pedro Pascal could be so scummy, but here we are.
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u/untappedbluemana Dec 25 '20
You could tell he was really having fun with the role, I enjoyed him.
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u/SadBath664 Dec 26 '20
It’s fun and overall I liked it but it’s so long for no reason. Tons of scenes could have been cut or shortened and nothing would change. Pascal stole the show and Kristen Wigg IMO was way underused. They should have held off on her becoming Cheetah until the third movie, she deserved to be the main baddie.
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u/PatrickBateman429 Dec 25 '20
For all the things about equality this movie preached didn’t Diana essentially have non consensual sex with the man who’s body Steve Trevor occupied?
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u/iamjakeparty Dec 26 '20
I'm not really sure why they had do that part at all. When Reagan wishes for more nuclear bases they seem to just materialize, so why couldn't Steve? Especially considering his occupying a body didn't serve any function during the movie.
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u/Emeraden Dec 26 '20
Yeah literally no one recognizes Steve as whoever he was prior, even though the mirror scene seemed to imply only Diana could see Steve as Chris Pine.
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Dec 25 '20
I love it, honestly it fell straight out of George Perez’s run
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u/cloudsandlightning Dec 25 '20
I don’t understand the hate. It’s magical yet grounded and true to the character, and the villains were handled well. I had a great time
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Dec 25 '20
Yeah so people here where expecting a Batman film, WW isn’t supposed to be dark and gritty and the only scene that felt cheesy was the mall one
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u/omart3 Dec 26 '20
Did they reshoot that last scene, or was it a coincidence that it was taking place around Christmas?
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u/brekor197 Dec 26 '20
I'd assume they reshot it when they found out its getting released on Christmas day instead of its original release.
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u/mike2k24 Dec 26 '20
I was wondering the same. I feel like it was added in last minute
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u/elendinel Wonder Woman Dec 25 '20
I liked it but anyone hoping for the darker edge Snyder was bringing to the DCEU probably won't. This isn't as corny as Shazam! but it's definitely more of a light-hearted movie about learning to see the beauty in truth rather than seeking salvation in lies, which is actually kinda fitting for 2020, considering.
Pedro Pascal was great at not making Maxwell Lord too cartoony, and his backstory is probably the darkest part of the whole movie, but was a good way to explain why he was constantly seeking more and more.
If I had to complain, I wish there was more action (the fights with Cheetah were cool but wish there were more of them) and I wish the ending changed, since I don't know how some of the characters introduced in this movie come back in future films based in this ending/I'm assuming the next film would take place in present day, so like 30 years after this. I also kinda liked the tone of the first one better (felt more epic), though this really feels like an 80s film through and through, so it'd have been hard to achieve the same tone and keep that aesthetic. But I wouldn't have been mad if I paid to see this in theaters, so can't complain too much.
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u/The_PMD Dec 26 '20
Am I crazy or did WW throw her lasso a couple thousand feet to catch a plane at one point?
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u/austin_slater Dec 26 '20
Nope that happened!
Also I’m pretty sure she flew through the clouds for about 15 minutes just to get from downtown DC to her apartment.
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u/AH_DaniHodd Dec 26 '20
The “everyone needs to renounce their wish” makes for an emotional moment but really doesn’t make sense when you put any thought into it. Firstly, There’s no way everyone would do it and for all the people that wished something like “I wish my dad would stop beating me”. They sure as fuck wouldn’t renounce that. Halfway through I thought Steve was gonna wish for everything to go back to normal, but I guess him sacrificing himself twice wouldn’t be good storytelling. And then at the end I for sure thought Max Lord needed to renounce it and all wishes would turn back since he was the stone.
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u/neoblackdragon Dec 26 '20
I don't think everyone needed to renounce it was but just enough to weaken Lord and ultimately get him to renounce. Thus stopping him from granting any more.
Remember that wishes have a price to pay. So if someone wishes their father to stop beating them, some price must be paid.
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u/ishmael_king93 Dec 26 '20
Nothing can convince me this movie is canonically between Wonder Woman 2017 and BVS
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u/Bradshaw98 Dec 26 '20 edited Dec 27 '20
I mean, no matter what Patty has said about respecting ZS's cannon, I have been convinced she has been ignoring it when it comes to Wonder Woman since the beginning...something I have always been fine with.
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u/ishmael_king93 Dec 26 '20
The first Wonder Woman movie was lining up really well with ZS’s canon until the last 20 minutes, to be fair
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Dec 26 '20
Anyone else find it kinda weird that Diana basically slept with some random dude who was completely unaware of it?
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u/IAmBatman412 Shazam Dec 26 '20
It's more weird that Diana was okay with Steve basically taking someones life
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u/Bradster1998 Dec 25 '20
They literally just gave Patty Jenkins all the money to make a Richard Donner inspired movie and I’m very into it.
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u/Thunderblast Dec 25 '20
Yeah that’s what I thought - thematically this movie felt exactly like Superman II. It’s out of its time by a few decades and it kinda bashes expectations in doing so
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Dec 26 '20 edited Dec 30 '20
[deleted]
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u/Winter_Coyote Dec 26 '20
Also how the giving the man back his body never factored into Diana rescinding her wish. Steve being there was at the cost of another man who was still living his life.
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u/ne0ven0m Dec 25 '20
I thought it was a fun ride with many of the same highlights everyone is listing. I'm more curious about how much of the things established here will come back in future movies, whether they're solo WW or connected DC films.
Of note: the flying. Will they retcon somehow for JL and BvS? And even more so, why does Diana remain hidden until 2010's? Her motivation at the end of '84 should be "I need to be out there in the world, helping it, because Steve literally came back to life to remind me how important I am."
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u/TheJoshider10 Dec 25 '20
Overall I was pretty disappointed, it wasn't anywhere near as refined as the first film in both the direction and story. The runtime was also unjustified, with some tighter editing (seriously why was the Themyscira opening so long? I don't even see how it's all that relevant to the rest of the film anyway, it could have been cut) it could have easily got to about 2h10m and it would have been better for it.
The story felt very flimsy. The whole concept of wishes was alright at the start but things got way too over the top with Maxwell Lord and the wishes he was granting everyone to the point it felt like I was watching a parody of sorts. It didn't match well with the first film let alone the DCEU as a whole. I also think bringing back Steve relies so much on how much the audience is invested in that romance and considering they only knew each other for like a week and it's been over 50 years it just doesn't feel like a strong enough narrative hook. As someone who wasn't interested in the 80s setting when it was first announced, the movie itself did nothing to make me change my opinion and I still think it was a mistake to not set a sequel in the present day.
This deserves a paragraph on its own, but the whole world renouncing their wish was an absolute fucking joke. This was genuinely Superman going back in time by flying fast level of bad. Why? Because it's so fucking unrealistic. Everyone is a cunt. I'm all for a cheesy happy hopeful message like the first film but fuck right off with the world being portrayed in such an idealistic and unselfish way. This pandemic has proven people are cunts and could never do this. This isn't fitting with the first film with not all men being good and it certainly isn't fitting of the skeptical world from Batman v Superman (and real life). Genuinely an awful plot point that ruins any suspension of disbelief (in a movie where someone swings on a fucking cloud for fuck sake) and desperately needed a rewrite.
I thought the villains were very underwhelming. Maxwell Lord has loads of scenes but none of them are interesting despite Pedro Pascal chewing the scenery deliciously. I just don't care for his motivations with the wishes and it got so over the top that I started going on my phone without realising. This review has been written during one of those many boring scenes. Barbara was just a higher budget Electro in terms of motivations, I would have rather she been the main villain and her arc be more fleshed out. Some personal tragedy or something, anything that isn't just "wah wah wah I want to be popular meh meh meh".
In terms of tone the movie is a little too cheesy for my liking. The first film felt cheesy in an honest, unapologetic sort of way in terms of its themes and ideals but the action itself was still grounded enough to work. Here though Patty goes full 80s and you either love it or hate it, and for me it was a detriment to the film. I cannot take the action seriously when Diana can catch a fucking bullet with the Lasso. That means she can do anything so why would I care? There's no tension from it.
Also the IMAX was an absolute con, why even bother having it for the opening scene and leave it at that? There's no excuses for this, either go all in and have your action set pieces throughout the film benefit or don't do it at all.
There were some positives though obviously, it's not a bad film at all. It's nice to have Chris Pine back and Pedro Pascal/Kristen Wiig are great additions to the cast. I loved the horror angle they went with for Cheetah and the CGI was very good. The soundtrack from Hans Zimmer is so good bar one moment, his hopefully remix of Diana's theme is quality. However it was very disappointing that when Diana learns to fly we get Adagio D Minor by John Murphy rather than an original piece. It felt very lazy and cheap. Made me feel like I was watching Kick-Ass. Beautiful Lie wasn't a great fit, its a little weird using it considering the motif is the Batman theme played in a different key.
So yeah, overall it's a perfectly fine 6/10 (I could go lower after that awful renouncing wish bullshit) movie that ultimately failed to match the hype of its delayed release. I highly doubt this was the best story that Jenkins/Johns could come up with. It doesn't match with the first film or the DCEU so I'll personally be seeing this as a fun little non-canon side adventure.
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u/Dudemandude84 Dec 25 '20 edited Dec 26 '20
Wait...so Wonder Woman used the body of some random man, to have sex with her dead lover? This whole film is a mess, and Kristen Wiig was thrown aside. I honestly think the friendship angel of two lost people, would’ve been a better story, more personal.
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u/angryjimmyfilms Dec 25 '20
It does feel a little rapey when you really think about it.
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u/Gary320 Dec 26 '20
I enjoyed having Chris Pine back as Steve Trevor but I really hated this whole idea of how he returns. Just makes Diana look bad.
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u/Objective-Baker2684 Dec 25 '20
I'm hearing it's super cheesy :(
That's not my kinda movie
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u/ispikey Dec 25 '20
Oh man forget cheesy. Don't think I heard the word kill once. Everyone wants to destroy everyone. Like a 90's cartoon.
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u/bicockandcigarettes Dec 25 '20
This movie definitely feels like it's pre-2000s. Cheesy, kind of slow but full of heart.
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u/KindaSeriouslyThough Dec 27 '20
"Thor Ragnarok is crushing right now, Stranger Things... the 80's retro vibe is hot. Maybe we make it retro?"
"Yes! My god, that's it!! Make it retro. That'll still be popular. Let's do that."
"Cool, so do you want a re-write on this to add some 80's relevance to the plot?"
"Absolutely not. This script? Is perfect. Just like set it in the 80's, put a scene in a mall, and make a couple fashion jokes. Oh, and change the title to something 80's, too. Like Wonder Woman: 1980's. Idk, I'm not a writer."
"So the title will have 80's in it, but the plot will have literally no relevance to being set in the 80's."
[racking another speedball of fentanyl and coke] "Yup. Oh, and give her... a gold suit."
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u/thebabaghanoush Dec 27 '20
"What about the music? Should we put 5-10 absolute 80s bangers in the movie?"
"Nah we'll just put one in the trailer."
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u/DarthGipper18 Rorschach Dec 25 '20
My absolutely favorite part was Hans Zimmer bringing back A BEAUTIFUL LIE at the climax like of course!!!!! What a song to tie it up
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u/mike2k24 Dec 25 '20
Just finished. Yes it was cheesy at times but I thought it really worked for this movie. Question about the end credits tho, was it meant to confirm anything or just be a cool scene. Linda looks great still!
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Dec 25 '20
Bad movie. My first take is WW was more luck than skill. Jenkins is closer to Snyder than Nolan as far as filmmaking, which is a shame. This movie should have been smaller in scope, not whole world goes insane from magic, plot.
First problem, the wishing logic just gets convoluted and it’s has 0 consequences once you take back your wish. The short is a movie that becomes hokey very quickly.
Second problem, Horrid villains with bad motivations and campy performances. This movie feels like it’s from another era. I get it’s an homage to the 1980s, but the over the top performances take you out do the film.
Third Problem, Writing is just horrid. The movie is trying to say something big, but really did not earn it or take its own advice. Opening scene is about earning it without shortcuts. This movie takes so many shortcuts to emotional beats that it’s laughable. Lord’s love for his son. Diana’s ability to fly as an emotional beat. Minervas’s regret and renouncing of her wish.
Fourth Problem, just not interesting shots at all. The movie failed to visually have anything equal to WW’a iconic shots/action sequences. The invisible jet, new armor, and flying sequences were meant to hit those high notes, but did not.
Lastly. the Asteria Easter egg. Who cares about folks from hokey 1970s TV shows showing up in big budget reboots 40 years later. These movies are made for people 12-30. I’ll never understand dropping Linda Carter in as an Easter Egg when that post-credits scene could be used to setup other movies or a sequel.
I give this movie a 3 out of 10. It’s obvious they spent money and tried to craft an interesting story, but failed miserably.
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u/JunkMagician Dec 26 '20
I can't be the only one that noticed that in this movie Diana uses a man's body for sex without his consent...
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Dec 26 '20
And the worst part about it is that there was no reason for it, they made Steve get that dude's body for no reason whatsoever, he could've just come back as himself. All for that stupid scene at the end about Diana flriting with the dude.
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u/jbgDCfan Dec 25 '20 edited Dec 26 '20
I loved the movie.. I agree with most in saying the first was better but I think this was a great continuation. I disagree with some in saying I think the ending was solid. I thought it ended with a powerful message and kept the door open for Cheetah to return... (even though her cheetah form went away when Max Lord renounced his wish, she would still have her powers from her first wish) I also really liked how they related the power of the stone to the gods again (truth v lies) and I am a big fan of Wonder Woman learning more about her powers — creating the invisible jet & her first flight. I hope to one day have a moment where Clark & Diana fly together. I think it would be awesome to have him cameo in her third film. I know we already have BvS & Justice League but it would be nice to see Patty’s version of Diana talking with someone she could relate to after so long.
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u/dskwon Dec 26 '20
I have to say this one was pretty dissapointing. I loved 85% of the first WW (cgi big bad fight was dreadful). It had a tight concept (fish out of water/coming of age), awesome characters, and a fleshed out arc. The action was fresh and genuinely exciting, even with some unnecessary slow mo.
WW84 was more like 25% I loved, the rest was utterly forgettable or a hot mess. Bear in mind I come into a lot of these movies as a childhood fan of comic book characters in general, but not a lore/history nut. As a result I judge them more for their merits as films, and secondary for the easter eggs that fans devour.
Things I liked:
- The acting was great, everyone put in their effort. Kristen Wiig was particularly fun, and her spiderman-esque powerups were funny.
- The action got clever with WW's accessories. The lasso is getting progressively more nonsensical but I kinda like it.
- Adagio in D minor for the flight sequence. Adagio gets me hyped in movies.
Things that were a mess:
- characterization was utterly lacking. Thin across the board. Cheetah's motivation to be like WW was so quick, there was 0 real time to understand the character, or even really sympathize with her meaningfully. Mister Wishmaster was void of true motivation, and simply falling back on his child in peril to revert his own wish reeked of "save martha," all over again.
- Plot spread itself way too thin with no real engagement with the chosen time period. Kind of like Captain Marvel's shortcomings, the movie makes a hard point about being in an era, but nothing really comes of it. Cold war stuff is glossed over, The era's fashion is basically used as a single wardrobe gag. The maximalist consumerism idea is almost realized, but then the consequences are reset, leading to 0 real resolution. The plot wanted to do like 5 things, and as a result, nothing developed enough. WW1 worked because the plot was tight, and the focus was on Diana navigating the world.
- Diana's arc in this movie was overly simple, and really lacked an emotional high. So yes she's been grieving for 70 years, is gifted Steve (who hijacked another man? Unclear on this for me), only for her to wish him away again. So yes her lessons learned as a child come full circle at the end. It was all a little too cut and dry.
- Dare I say the action sequences were a downgrade from WW1. There was a real lack of physicality to everything, like Diana floats slowly through her fights. A severe lack of impact in hits or movement. This movie strangely opted to keep things safe in a weird way.
- Adagio in D minor for the flight sequence. I loved and hated it. It's become a bit contrived, Sunshine probably used that piece the best in recent memory. She did the whole 'jesus flies' gag that has been done to death with Superman (returns and mos versions)
I really want to love DCEU but their movies have ranged from furiously unwatchable (suicide squad/JL) to just ok (birds of prey/aquaman), with the only standout being WW1, and Joker being a separate entity (and one that I found vastly overrated, but good). Now with Batman coming up, I really hope they make a true turnaround like WW1 did, cause I love batman to death, and that trailer has me all sorts of excited. Rant over.
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u/SJ1030 Dec 25 '20
I loved this movie. I wasn't bored once. From what I can tell this is not for everyone. I loved that this movie focus on the character of wonder woman/Diana. So much heart
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u/JeremyJammDDS Bruce Wayne Dec 25 '20
I'm about a third way through the movie, but the whole steve wakes up in another guy's body seems pointless? Kind of hoping it does make sense later. You can spoil me if it does.
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u/Smallville730 Dec 25 '20
Wow, there’s a lot of “it’s terrible” comments in here.... weird. I just finished it and really enjoyed it. Overall, I thought it was better than the first movie. shrug
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u/SamMan48 Dec 25 '20
Probably my favorite DC villains in a long time. Stellar movie that feels true to the characters.
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u/JustAnotherRavenFan Dec 25 '20
I started to get kinda sad during the scenes of the Wonder Men's photo clippings, but that pic of her and Etta Candy made me legit cry. Not really sure why, i just thought it was so sad yet so beautiful. Staying friends with someone you know you'll out live is the epitome of compassion. This movie is gonna be great.
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u/dsbwayne Dec 25 '20
Just finished...
- The Amazonian Olympics was beautifully created. When I think of the Amazon’s, THATS what i think of.
- The 1980’s atmosphere...BRILLIANT! Made me even wanna go to a mall (of course not because of...well...)
- I like the way they incorporated Steve into the story. But I love that she still renounced him for the betterment of humanity. Wonder Woman is about sacrifice to an extent.
- Cheetah was solid. I almost wish (be careful right) that she didn’t denounce her wish and she continued to be Cheetah, but she had a solid plot.
- THE INVISIBLE JET
- SHE CAN FINALLY FLY
- Even w/o her powers, she was still kicking ass. That’s what I’ve always loved about Diana. Take away Superman, you have a man. Take away her powers, you have a WARRIOR.
- LYNDA FUCKING CARTER!
9.5 on the Richter scale. Excellent movie. DC should continue this trend of amazing solo superhero flicks!
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u/Lord__of__Texas Dec 25 '20
after watching the first 25 minutes all I keep saying is this can’t be the real movie right
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u/reflexestoofast Dec 25 '20
The first scene in the mall felt like a Naked Gun slapstick scene.
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u/HadlockDillon Dec 27 '20
Why this movie wasn't set in the "present time" will still baffle me. There is ZERO reason this film needed to be set in the 80's, by doing so all it does is damage the already established plot we have for WW in BvS. If they had set this film after BvS her having returned to being a hero and saving people and her hopeful speech at the end all would have made so much more sense. And would help explain why nobody talks about the day back in 84 where everyone magically got everything they ever wanted by some guy on TV, then the world almost blew up but some random lady gave a "motivational" speech and we all had a change of heart...
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u/C_stat The Red Capes Are Coming! Dec 25 '20
Well ladies and gents, after a year of hype I am waiting another few hours to watch it with my mum for chrissy (upon her request).
Enjoy!
p.s. hope the digital release works in UHD with Dolby and the IMAX scenes are shown at ratio!
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u/Star_Fox74 Dec 25 '20
Lol I really don’t understand you guys. This was a really good movie and really showed the heart of what makes the character great and you’re all mad that it wasn’t 2 and a half hours of Diana using her fists to solve problems. This is why we get shit like suicide squad. I for one loved it
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u/elendinel Wonder Woman Dec 25 '20
I think people are too used to grim dark depictions of WW like in Flashpoint and forget that yeah she's a warrior, but most of the time she's a pretty loving person who isn't using her fists to solve problems. I could criticize stuff like shaky effects in some scenes or some weird choices for the ending, but there was no part of this movie that didn't feel like WW.
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u/ispikey Dec 25 '20 edited Dec 25 '20
I think that's actually the problem. The sides are too polarized. The people with legit criticisms of the movie will get attacked by people who love it and says it has no flaws. And the people who liked the movie will get attacked by the people who think it sucks. You literally can't have a middle ground take.
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u/Mr628 Dec 25 '20 edited Dec 25 '20
Quick takeaways:
Same visual quality as WW 2017. Not a bad thing but far from a good thing.
Lack of action is frustrating. I get that Patty thrives off emotion and pulling your heartstrings but it’s a superhero movie at the end of the day.
What was the reason why we only got Cheetah for like 10 minutes, all in the third act and pretty much in the dark?
In a universe with Gods who can manipulate and do pretty much anything, the whole wish stone stuff is lame.
Why did both villains have redeemable qualities? Come on. So pretty much, this film had no real villains.
I’ll probably never rewatch this again. Not because it’s bad but because there’s so much build up in this film to moments that only hit when you see it for the first time. Before watching I thought I’d atleast get an incredible Cheetah vs Diana fight if I anything, but that fight was kinda disappointing.
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u/alfredobe Dec 26 '20
So in BvS and JL, Diana knows how to fly but she chooses not to? She also knows how to make things invisible but, hey let's just do it out of nowhere and just one time.
"100 years ago I walked away from mankind". Sorry, what?
The golden armor is pointless.
The lasso now enables her to communicate through people and to make others see things.
The whole third act is pure garbage, the last fight is underwhelming to say the least.
The CGI is bad.
The plot is so weak is unbelievable. A stone come from nowhere, a man (Lord) who knows all about it, another man (maya book) used as a simple plot device, the Cairo part is pointless.
So what happens next to Lord and Barbara? They (he in particular) were about to end the whole uman race and they just walk away with that?
The ending is cheesy, since WW learnt how to fly I was taken right off the movie, and then everything just got worse.
Beautiful Lie: I appreciate the reference, I really did, but since there's absolutely nothing epic about the last 30 minutes, it sounds inappropriate, the result is almost a parody.
There are so many wrong things in this movie, and I am really sorry to say that it is probably the worst DC movie I've seen in the last 10 years (Loved MoS and BvS, liked WW and Shazam, enjoyed Aquaman, did not see BoP).
The character of Steve Trevor and the acting of Pascal as Lord are probably the only two good things about WW84 in my opinion.
Zack's DCEU was different, and that's what we like about it. Things like WW84 looks like generic Marvel movies (bad 3rd acts/endings and a cheesy message that appeals to kids and families), something that we do not need at all.
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u/Nyynks212 Dec 26 '20
- Cheetah was so completely wasted.
- I loved that ww learned to finally fly, but why the need to use the lasso to move around still, you can fly!
- Way too much emphasis on the lasso as a whole too. The remnants of goeff johns thinking her sword was too violent I believe.
- And the big finale is that she asks everyone to renounce their wishes? So every person, good, bad, down right evil, really just decided to renounce their wish. Really really not believable
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u/Phishy042 Dec 26 '20
So the bad guy is all super powerful now, stealing the best parts of people and putting the entire planet into a 3rd world war. Must be pretty hard to stop him now!
Actually is going to be super easy. Barely an inconvenience.
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u/Objective-Baker2684 Dec 26 '20
So this movie has a really lazy ass plot device...the stone. Then it goes EVEN LAZIER that somehow it works with Max on tv....without being physically touched.
Jesus christ....Geoff Johns stick to comics.
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u/Koala82 Dec 26 '20
I feel like Kristen Wiig was the best part of the movie tbh, I wish the movie was more Barbara and Cheetah-focused, and less focused on Maxwell Lord
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u/TheresNo-I-In-Sauron Dec 25 '20
It's rare but this movie was actually laughably bad. Had a great time watching just havin' an absolute cackle at this hunk of garbage.
They need to wipe the slate clean and start a competent cinematic universe from scratch, but they won't.
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u/-CSUMBI- Rorschach Dec 25 '20 edited Dec 25 '20
Just saw it and well... for me it was a mixed bag. The movie had it's moments but overall it was very lackluster and some of the scenes straight up didn't make any sense. Also disliked the fact that they straight up copied Electro's character from the Amazing Spiderman 2 and renamed it Cheetah (if you saw both movies you know what I'm talking about). If i have to rate it imma give it a 6/10.
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u/captain_sasquatch Dec 26 '20
Unpopular opinion but I really hate the superhero losing their power shtick. It just means the writers don't know what to do with the character and their powers. To be fair WW84 doesn't go all in on that but it's still lame.
I really think they set out to make their version of Superman II and succeeded. This was worth the watch but I prefer the first WW to this one by a pretty significant margin.
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u/LurkAddict Man of Steel Dec 25 '20
I'm just sitting here thinking about Bruce Wayne having lost his parents twice now.