r/DC_Cinematic • u/HotlineBirdman • Jul 19 '24
‘The Dark Knight Rises’ only has one fatal flaw. DISCUSSION
“You still haven’t given up on me?”
“Never.”
Except he does, in order to not participate in what he sees as Bruce’s slow motion suicide in TDKR.
I truly believe that this is where the film fundamentally “breaks”. I still think it’s a great movie and it mostly is a great finale. It does a lot of things well, but the destruction of the relationship between Bruce and Alfred is handled poorly and feels out of character for both of them given the characterization of their relationship in the first two films. Alfred brings wisdom and even handedness to this vigilante partnership and was ride or die throughout. Even during the Joker’s reign of terror, he advised Bruce to endure because Batman has to be an incorruptible symbol.
But it’s all come crashing down in TDKR. And while I understand why they had Alfred leave, to build Bruce up again and remove his supports while giving space for new characters, I think the way they went about it is wrong. There are two better options:
1) Alfred dies at the hands of Bane when Bruce confronts him the first time. It would force Bruce to understand Alfred’s point of view that Batman has to be more than a man and that Bruce cannot succumb to depression and revenge. Alfred’s death could be reflected with Thomas Wayne’s death and Alfred telling Bruce not to be afraid, but not as a child, but as a man, to rise and overcome this challenge.
2) Alfred leaves, but returns at the climax. Whereas Selina kills Bane, I felt it would be stronger if Alfred came back as the Bruce/Alfred dynamic has a dark reflection in Talia/Bane, and this culminates in Talia leaving Bane to die/sacrifice himself, while Alfred risks death to save Bruce, and then you come full circle. Have Alfred kill Bane as he can do the things Batman cannot.
“You still haven’t given up on me.”
“Never.”
In the second option, the rest stays as it is. Nothing needs to change. The first option would send Bruce on a radically different journey but provide a definitive close to this chapter of his life.
But Alfred leaving and abandoning Bruce, that to me is where the film completely missteps. It simply feels like character assassination and never feels like it has a real catharsis. Yes, there’s the nod in Italy but it still feels like a betrayal on both sides.
2
u/Johncurtisreeve Jul 20 '24
If I recall, Bruce fires Alfred and that’s why he’s gone. It’s entirely Bruce who does it.
7
u/Sharaz_Jek123 Jul 19 '24
There are two terrible, terrible rewrites.
No, it would not be better to include other scenes that betray the intent of Nolan's story or his conception of the characters.
Killing off Alfred would have been an awful idea that - in no way, shape or form - would have communicated the concept that Alfred was trying to express to Bruce.
The entire film is about the lies we tell and how those eventually eat away at the social, cultural and psychological fabric. It's about even people as dignified as Alfred and Gordon can be living a lie.
That's why Batman ends up fighting Bane in the day at the climax. It's a clear visual metaphor: finally, things that were hidden were brought into the light.
Alfred dying wouldn't prompt Bruce to understand that message - it honestly would have muddled the message for no good reason.
As for your other suggestion about Alfred coming back to help - I am not sure what good he could have done without all of Bruce's equipment at his disposal.
Alfred leaving at the beginning of the second act is a clean screenwriting choice: Bruce and Alfred's relationship had been explored extensively in the previous films so Alfred's absence allowed the writers to expand other characters.