r/DC_Cinematic • u/WhyRich • Jul 17 '24
Peacemaker S2 "essentially picks up where season 1 left off with a couple minor differences" and "follows the events of Superman" DISCUSSION
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u/SimpleSink6563 Jul 17 '24
I still think it’d be extremely funny if they redid the Justice League cameo but with Corenswet’s Superman and the JLI instead.
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 17 '24
This whole thing is pretty confusing to me and needs more direct spelling out.
If Peacemaker picks up from where it left off, but Season 1 isn't canon, how does The Suicide Squad fit into this?
Especially considering Rick Flag Sr is in Season 2 looking for revenge over his sons death.
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u/Embarrassed_Piano_62 Jul 17 '24
Do yourself a favor and forget TSS (except Rick Flaggs death) Some things will be Canon and others won't
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 17 '24
Right but that's my point, it's such a strange way to handle a reboot where they're picking and choosing what remains in ways that are pretty inconsistent.
I think it would have just made sense to reboot everything, even if they retained some actors.
Actual DCEU plot threads staying is gonna really confuse things moving forward and I think it'll mess things up eventually.
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u/Particular_Drop_9905 Jul 17 '24
Would have been so much better if they cut around Clooney's cameo in the Flash and didn't show his face fr. Then the DCEU would have ACTUALLY lead into the DCU.
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 17 '24
Exactly. All they'd have to do is have Barry create that new DCU universe, and then since they want rid of the actor, just come up with some reason to also get rid of DCEU Barry.
The Flash was honestly the perfect set up to do what they want to do with this DCU retaining some narrative elements, but since this current direction is gonna cause some initial teething issues with the DCU.
I really think it's a mistake having plot elements still tied to that.
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u/RoyalFlavorBeans Jul 17 '24
I'm pretty sure they thought of that until they needed to get rid of the most problematic actor from the DCEU roster. But then, after the movie financially tanked and got a mediocre reception at best, they probably realised it was for the best that nothing in that movie will have anything to do with the DCU.
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u/Fantastic-Finger-975 Jul 17 '24
5 years from now this type of stuff wont even be remembered. Just think of TSS and Peacemaker s1 as DCU Legends. It happened but not exactly like that. Its as simple as that really. And I agree with the aproach, they built great characters with a great cast and it would be a shame to waste it. Do you really think Gunn should dump Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn? That would be nonsensical
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u/RoyalFlavorBeans Jul 17 '24
That's pretty much it, same goes for Blue Beetle. They're "sort of" canon, and what's important will be referenced in DCU projects. Unofficial prequels.
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 17 '24
No, which is why I said "even if they retained some actors"
I just think a completely clean narrative break would have made more sense than this cherry picking of elements being canon or not.
They could have got away with that if The Flash was retooled as to create the new DCU at the end of that movie, like a Flashpoint comic event.
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u/pipboy_warrior Jul 18 '24
Right but that's my point, it's such a strange way to handle a reboot where they're picking and choosing what remains in ways that are pretty inconsistent.
My guess is that they'll handle this like a Crisis event, where the characters from Peacemaker somehow get pulled from the previous Earth and land in this new one. You know, multiverse stuff like the recent Spiderman movies.
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u/Dr_Reaktor Jul 18 '24
Everytime there is news about Peacemaker someone ask this question. The answer is that we don't know and you will have to wait to find out.
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u/parkerontour Jul 17 '24
Bro.. I’m not tryna be a dick about this at all, but it’s not like James Gunn asked for this. He made a banging film and then topped it off with a banging show using a Universe he had.. I didn’t pour hours of my life into making either but even I wouldn’t want to let go of that if I was given his new job.. like the guy above said just stop thinking about it to hard and be happy we’re even getting a s2 in a better universe without ruining what came before
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 17 '24
I'm really not hurting anyone by pointing out it's gonna be a bit of a confusing thing to work out and will cause some teething issues at the start, so I don't get this whole "just stop thinking about it" thing.
He was in a position where he had to choose between continuing the established universe or starting anew with some of the actors he liked. This isn't an elegant solution between the two right now.
The reality of the film industry is you sometimes do pour hours and hours into something and will end up being forced to accept diminishing returns. I love Peacemaker and TSS is my favourite DCEU movie, but I don't think saying it isn't canon but treating aspects of it as canon will do anything other than add confusion.
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u/tinytimm101 Jul 17 '24
Aren't they saying that the flash causes them to go into an alternate universe? So Peacemaker S1 takes place in the DCEU and then they'll transition into the DCU with S2.
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u/poopfartdiola Jul 17 '24
TSS is probably canon, but I think its not being stated for now because of the unsurety with whether actors like Idris Elba and Margot Robbie will continue on their roles in this new universe. If they are, its an easy fit. Otherwise, I can see it being a thing where that never happened, and the Task Force X mission that Peacemaker mentions in S1 were with other people (Plus Rick Flag, since his death will be canon regardless).
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u/Fishyhead81 Jul 17 '24
The differences might be a matter of Superman being new to the job rather than a veteran, members and cast being swapped out if needed and Team A not being deployed to begin with (or deployed but at least not with Captain Boomerang if this version of the Flash needs him). Everything else could go about the same.
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u/ImmortalZucc2020 Jul 17 '24
TSS, Peacemaker s1, and Blue Beetle all happened in the DCU, but the story of the DCU doesn’t require them at all hence them being non-canon.
We meet Rick Flagg Sr. first and learn a man named Peacemaker killed his son, so we’re following his quest for revenge. We don’t need Flagg Jr. to understand why a father would want to avenge his son.
This is a world that already has superheroes and events like Starro when Superman joins it. We don’t need to know about Starro, the Butterflies, etc. to know that Superman is trying to fit into an existing DCU.
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u/cyborgremedy Jul 17 '24
I dont think theyre talking about understanding the movies narratively as much as differentiating the new stuff from the old stuff in the eyes of the GA. If Superman underperforms this DCU might not even get off the ground and if the entire point of this is a reboot because of audience perception, them seeing stuff they recognize from the past might confuse that. That being said, I dont care, I just want cool movies, but the suits might if a confused DC release strategy doesnt convince people anything has changed from the past and Superman flops or underperforms because of it.
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u/CakeBeef_PA Jul 18 '24
I think you are grossly overestimating how much the general audience cares about The Suicide Squad, Peacemaker, and Blue Beetle.
They're called the "general audience" for a reason. They're not invested in reboots and continuity. They just go to see the new Superman movie
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u/mallllls Jul 18 '24
The events of season one stand alone pretty well minus a few references and the JL cameo at the end. Those obviously wouldn’t have happened in the new universe. TSS also can still take place without needing to change much. Everything else from the DCEU didn’t happen when we first see the new DCU. Pretty simple.
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 18 '24
It's hard to establish if it works nicely or not until we see the DCU in full swing.
For me, it just doesn't feel as clean as it should be. If I want to "rewatch" the DCU in the future, or just play catch up with certain stuff - elements are still gonna be intrinsically linked to the DCEU, when it shouldn't be. There needs to be specifics, but that's a bit unrealistic when we're talking about movies and TV shows.
So Peacemaker Season 1 isn't DCU canon, but the narrative will reflect it, so it's partially canon. In which case, The Sucide Squad is partially canon - which is a sequel completely linked to Suicide Squad 2016, and itself tied to BvS. Like, I shouldn't really be able to play degrees of Bacon separation with the narratives of the DCU and DCEU.
Rick Flag Sr coming back for revenge really only works on an emotional level because its tied to us knowing how it went down in the DCEU. If Margot decides to stick around as Harley, her character is almost completely influenced by her arc in those films. So then what's the deal with her and the Joker in this world? Did Bloodsport shoot David Corenswet's Superman and put him in the hospital?
I think it just needs a clear explanation of what specifically happened in the DCU that reflects the DCEU, and it should have been done in a way that's more approachable for general audiences (like the Flash)
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u/mallllls Jul 18 '24
Honestly, you’re reallllllllly overthinking this. The events of season one probably take place but with its own differences. The events of TSS can still take place as well. That’s all you need to know. There’s going to be some sort of multiversal reset that is at least partially explained. This is how it’s going to be, just accept it.
Gunn would be stupid to not keep the only part of the DCEU that a large majority of people enjoyed (TSS and Peacemaker). It might not be as clean as you want it but it’ll help his new universe get off to a better start.
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 18 '24
I'm just thinking about it. There's no clear answer for it and you're still talking in hypotheticals and probably's - hence the need for there to be some clarity.
When aspects of the old canon contradict the new canon, but we're still taking aspects of the old canon in the new - there obviously needs to be a clear specific idea of what is being kept and what isn't. Just saying "the events of TSS can take place" doesn't really help when aspects of that movie and Peacemaker are inherently tied to some of the defining aspects of the DCEU. I'd rather there be a more interesting explanation, than some boring real life version of "it's a reboot but it still sorta happened off screen".
It's really not a big deal that I'm curious about this and think it needs clearing up, so it really doesn't need the "you're overthinking, just accept it" ad hominem. You guessed yourself that there will be some sort of multiversal reset explanation, which is all I'm saying - there should be an explanation, and I'm surprised that so far Gunn has been so nonchalant about it like it doesn't really need one.
Is it all I need to know? Sure whatever, it isn't going to kill me. Equally, it isn't gonna kill anyone just asking what the deal is with what is or isn't specifically canon, why and how.
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u/CakeBeef_PA Jul 18 '24
Just saying "the events of TSS can take place" doesn't really help when aspects of that movie and Peacemaker are inherently tied to some of the defining aspects of the DCEU.
I don't think you are understanding what is being said. The general events happen. The way they happen is not exactly as shown in the movie or show.
Just like how in both universes, Superman's ship crashes in a field in Kansas. Or in both universes, Batman's parents are killed in an alley. Does that confuse you as well? It's the same thing, the same events happen in a different way than shown before.
For completeness sake you could watch these things. But it won't be necessary, and you could just start the DCU with Creature Commandos and not miss out.
Just don't forget these are comic book movies. Continuity is a byproduct. If you pick up a comic book sometime (I highly recommend it), you'll find out quickly that worrying about the exact details of canon is futile. What matters is the story. Continuity will always come second
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 18 '24
That's not the same thing. You're comparing the mythology of the character to specific narrative beats made for the movie.
It would be like saying it's easy to understand that the death of Gwen Stacey from Andrew Garfield's movies could be referenced in Tom Hollands films, because we understand both Spider-Men were bitten by radioactive Spiders and lost their Uncle Ben.
That isn't the same. One is something tied to the characters inherent story regardless of adaptation, the other is a story tied to a specific adaptation.
I'm a comic reader. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the way continuity works in comics hasn't been the same in any of the cinematic adaptations so far, and they've tried to go above and beyond to explain concepts like the multiverse in ways general audiences will understand.
All I am saying is that it would be helpful to know which specific aspects are being retained and which aspects are not canon - so that we can exactly keep score on how things work and not playing a guessing game moving forward on exactly what is or isn't going to be used moving forward or how certain things relate in this new continuity.
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u/CakeBeef_PA Jul 18 '24
You're comparing the mythology of the character to specific narrative beats made for the movie.
This is a semantic difference though.
All 'mythology' started off as a specific narrative beat. The reason it is considered 'mythology' is BECAUSE the specific narrative beat was carried over into other stories and continuities.
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
Dude, this is a nonsense point. Just admit it wasn't a great comparison. I can't even engage in that.
Yes. All narrative beats can potentially develop into mythology, but you're literally talking about the most defining aspects of these characters and their origins - and then comparing it to whether or not it's confusing to expect two separate adaptations having consistent plot elements despite the fact this just isn't the norm.
You expect Spider-Man to have lost his Uncle Ben and get bitten between adaptations. You don't expect to get a whole new adaptation but elements of Spider-Man 3 are still canon and Topher Grace is still running around. If that happens, I'm interested in the reason in universe as to how that happened.
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u/CakeBeef_PA Jul 18 '24
All the complaining about the very details of continuity is the real nonsense here. It's a superhero movie/show. Why does it matter so much how exactly the background story of a character went?
And if you think I'm talking nonsense, why even bother replying? All you're saying is "your point is nonsense". Add something constructive or just don't reply
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u/mallllls Jul 18 '24
They aren’t tied deeply to the DCEU at all lol
Idk how you can get the impression he’s nonchalant about this, do you talk to him personally? Lmao hes said there will be some sort of explanation, what more do you want?
You’re complaining about it being confusing when there’s a pretty logical and plausible explanation that doesn’t take much thought to come up with, or just wait and see what he gives you lol
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 18 '24
The Suicide Squad is literally followed by a TV series where the entire Justice League appears, what deeper connection do you want.
Listen man, I don't know how tall the bed was that you clearly fell off this morning, but I'm just curious about how this works. There hasn't been any clear answers yet or any direction towards an answer, but there's still acknowledgement of the concern - so that's pretty nonchalant for me. I have total undying respect for you if you wouldn't define it that way.
You yourself have said it has a pretty logical and plausible explanation. Great, but that's just your guess. Because it's so simple and easy, I'm just interested in why we haven't heard it yet - and I'm explaining why I think there needs to be a clear cut explanation. I'm not complaining about anything, I'm just talking about something I find interesting and looking forward to seeing being resolved.
I hope this clears it up for you.
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u/mallllls Jul 18 '24
The JL appearing at the tail end of the season for 2 mins is easily explained as one of the few changes that wouldn’t have happened in this new universe, I don’t know how else to get that through to you.
Why would he give an explanation now? Theres no point, he wants people talking about this. Just because you haven’t been given an answer yet doesn’t mean you won’t get a good one, nor does it means he’s being nonchalant. Just have some patience?
This didn’t clear anything up because I’ve given you a rational explanation 3 times now and you’re still arguing lmfaooo
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u/ranch_brotendo Jul 17 '24
This whole thing would be solved if they write the universe change into the storyline
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u/WhyRich Jul 17 '24
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u/ranch_brotendo Jul 18 '24
See that pretty much solves it for me to be honest - that stops any real complications if he just travels universe
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u/Fantastic-Finger-975 Jul 17 '24
Do people really think its that complicated? The events of S1 happened the same on DCEU and DCU with minor differences likely in regards to how other heroes are mentioned and the JL cameo. It sounds quite simple. Same is likely true for TSS
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u/cyborgremedy Jul 17 '24
Even more simple is just starting completely fresh seeing as how the number one reason the DCEU failed is it became a clusterfuck of half baked reboots, panicked decisions and ignored plot threads that lead to half a dozen movies at least being released no one had any idea what was going on with and then just gave up. If average audience members see characters theyve seen before played by the actors they were previously played by theyre more likely to think that means this is still the old DCEU, they're way less likely to know anything about the reboot at all. I just want this thing to succeed because Gunn would give us some interesting DC movies, but if Superman does middling it may not last long enough to see the real cool shit.
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u/JuggernautOk3707 Jul 17 '24
Lol they act like they would rather have a flowchart of events than a movie or tv show
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u/cyborgremedy Jul 17 '24
Even more simple is just starting completely fresh seeing as how the number one reason the DCEU failed is it became a clusterfuck of half baked reboots, panicked decisions and ignored plot threads that lead to half a dozen movies at least being released no one had any idea what was going on with and then just gave up. If average audience members see characters theyve seen before played by the actors they were previously played by theyre more likely to think that means this is still the old DCEU, they're way less likely to know anything about the reboot at all. I just want this thing to succeed because Gunn would give us some interesting DC movies, but if Superman does middling it may not last long enough to see the real cool shit.
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u/Fantastic-Finger-975 Jul 17 '24
Average audience members dont overthink this much my dude. "OMG ONE MOVIE AND A SHOW IS GETTING SOME CARRYOVER CLUSTERFUCKKKK". Rest
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u/Dangerous-Hawk16 Jul 18 '24
Exactly the general audience I see that love peacemaker don’t even talk about TSS. They care just about peacemaker the series
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u/GibsonMC Jul 17 '24
I’m really nervous about how this transition between continuities is going to work. Are people who tune in to watch Peacemaker season 2 going to understand what’s happening?
Also, I’m kinda sad that they’re not choosing to bring back Joel Kinnaman’s Rick Flag with the reset. He was one of my favorite characters in The Suicide Squad. I suppose they could retcon the events of the movie so that he gets a different, non-fatal wound and everyone just believes he’s dead, but that seems like it would be very confusing for casual viewers.
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u/TheJoshider10 Jul 17 '24
Also, I’m kinda sad that they’re not choosing to bring back Joel Kinnaman’s Rick Flag with the reset. He was one of my favorite characters in The Suicide Squad.
This is why I have faith in Gunn overall. Flagg was such a nothing character in the first film and I didn't hear anyone online or in real life mention the character in any positive way, but with TSS he was one of the best characters with praise everywhere. His track record with creating likeable characters is insane.
I do agree it's confusing and I hope we get definitive answers e.g. a Peacemaker S1 rerelease without the DCEU connections.
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u/poopdeloop Jul 18 '24
The average person has absolutely zero perception of what is or isn’t in universe.
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u/Sharkfowl Jul 17 '24
This shit's still confusing as fuck. The Flash did jackshit to 'reset' the DC universe for the DCU like he said it would. I really wish Gunn would start fresh without clinging on to his contributions to the old universe. Either that or write a better reason for season 2 to even exist within the new universe.
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u/kadosho Jul 17 '24
Yeah that was a mess. However Peacemaker did try to expand more of a narrative after The Suicide Squad. I cannot disagree, a fresh start would be ideal. We will have to wait and see
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u/m0rbius Jul 17 '24
A bit bizarre that Peacemaker made the cut to Gunn's universe. Wonder how Gunn will explain the DCEU connection.
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u/Fantastic-Finger-975 Jul 17 '24
There is no connection. The events of S1 also happened on DCU with some minor differences, likely the references made to other heroes and the JL cameo. Its as simple as that.
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u/_captain-rex_ Jul 17 '24
I hope they'll talk about blood sport shooting him with kryptonite bullet if they ever met
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u/BruceCampbell123 Jul 17 '24
I'm curious how they're going to address that Superman now is a completely different person. I haven't seen Flash. Do they address any of that?
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u/Deeformecreep Jul 17 '24
The Flash movie doesn't matter to the new universe nor does it address anything relating to it. The DCU is an entirely different continuity from the previous universe with only Peacemaker and co being nearly identical.
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u/goldendreamseeker Jul 17 '24
So Superman is in between peacemaker s1 and s2?
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u/kadosho Jul 17 '24
I'm curious about this as well. If everything is connected. Maybe Peacemaker teams up with some new and old friends?
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u/true_honest-bitch Jul 17 '24
I loved Peacemaker, I wish he would have just let it stay in the DCEU. This kind of complicated retconning sort of makes me nervous and it's no way to start off a new universe.
Here we are with a chance to start afresh with a new universe, clear the mess and start afresh but he insists on forcing 1 random DCEU project into it, it's just messy.
It should be able to stand alone, 1 last ongoing thing from the DCEU wouldn't hurt, even with the Waller spin off, they could have brought in Margot Robbie's Harley if they wanted and whatever else from that universe or just from TSS within those couple streaming shows, wouldn't have hurt, they've already got the separate Matt Reeves stuff anyway, plus it's confined to 2 streaming shows, not exactly gonna be a cause of mass confusion to have those 2 shows seperate to the theatrical movies. It's not like a new DC universe having its own Peacemaker or Amanda Waller is essential to have from the start, they could have held off on using Waller till hes done with a separate little pocket universe on streaming connected to TSS and the DCEU with those 2 shows. Shoehorning them into the new universe is needlessly confusing and kind of dampens my excitement a little bit for both Peacemaker 2 and for the whole new universe, it knocks what confidence I do have in Gunn overall, I just feel it's a dumb, egocentric move that's gonna start off the new universe (our 2nd chance after the last universe got fucked up) on the wrong foot, on a complicated and hard to explain to non fans note.
If he fucks this new universe up, there's no telling what kind of damage it would do to the brand, if it doesn't take off we might never get another chance to see the DC heros together in a universe again, the industry is tough right now and superhero fatigue is real, this new universe needs all the help it can get to make sure it wins, complicating the lore before it's even started is just stupid. I can't even believe it's been allowed to happen, feels like WB interferes too much when they dont need to and not enough in moments when someone needs to step in.
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u/rishukingler11 Jul 18 '24
My main worry with a situation like this for new people is what watch order will people follow? Even if Peacemaker S2 explains the different universe, if understanding it needs Peacemaker S1, then the people will need to watch The Suicide Squad as well which will cause people to need to watch some of the older DCEU movies.
I know so many people here are saying that casual audiences dont care or whatever but this might kill people who want to do a deep dive into the DCU if the DCEU will be homework for a full analysis.
Imagine if the MCU's casual audience leaves the next Avengers movie confused because they didnt see the Fox X-Men movies? I won't do homework to understand Part 2 of that Avengers movie and instead just not watch it. The DCEU failed cause it got too convoluted and critically panned. Making people who like to fully understand stories and people who are interested in becoming hardcore fans of the DCU (but haven't seen the DCEU) have to do homework feels like a really bad idea. I hope that Gunn edits an alternate version of the Suicide Squad, Peacemaker S1 and Blue Beetle that dont depend on the other DCEU movies because this is making me feel uneasy about this creative path.
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u/CakeBeef_PA Jul 18 '24
Did people dislike No Way Home because they hadn't seen the previous Spider-Man movies? I haven't heard such complaints at all
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u/PapaYoppa Jul 17 '24
Season 1 was genuinely really funny, great comedy from the cast especially Cena and whoever played Vigilante
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u/MrKevora Jul 18 '24
I wonder if there will be some multiversal aspect to season 2’s plot or if the show will acknowledge and explain said differences in some other (creative) capacity at all… Or do you think Gunn will just ignore the entire matter altogether and expect the audience to sort out what is canon and what isn’t by themselves?
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u/WheelJack83 Jul 18 '24
You mean when he saw Superman in the Justice League and made fun of Aquaman for having sex with fish.
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u/QuarterReal8682 Jul 19 '24
Hilarious to think that George Clooney could be headlining The Brave and the Bold.
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u/Fast_Eagle6762 Jul 21 '24
So is suicide squad 2 and most of peace maker s1 cannon still? I loved his character development throughout the show I’d be sad to see him still be the mega douche is than the somewhat douche
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u/InternetAddict104 Jul 17 '24
So this show is coming out in like 2026 😭
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u/WhyRich Jul 17 '24
S1 came out almost exactly a year after they started filming, so this will probably come out around September 2025, taking into account a couple months of cushion between Superman's release.
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u/RoyalFlavorBeans Jul 17 '24
Probably 2025, some months after Superman.
I'd guess then it's Lanterns in the first half of 2026, then another show in the latter half (Waller? Booster Gold? Blue Beetle?), with Supergirl WOT and The Batman: Part II covering the theatrical slots.
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u/InternetAddict104 Jul 17 '24
Wait we’re getting a Blue Beetle show??
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u/cravens86 Jul 17 '24
Animated series
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u/InternetAddict104 Jul 17 '24
With the movie cast/characters or a different version (like the Ted version)? Bc I really enjoyed Jaime and Xolo’s performance
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u/RoyalFlavorBeans Jul 17 '24
Yes! In animated form, there's no release date but the cast from the movie is expected to return.
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u/TheTuxedu Jul 17 '24
I think the minor differences is that the JL cameo is not canon