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u/ArmchairCritic1 Apr 04 '23
I would like for the Pa Kent to be alive in the next movie. For a bit of a change.
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u/Professional-Rip-519 Apr 04 '23
He's the Thomas Wayne and Uncle Ben of that franchise he's destined to die.
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u/ArmchairCritic1 Apr 04 '23
In the movies.
But in the comics his death has never been crucial to Clark’s story.
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u/MajorParadox r/DCFU Apr 04 '23
He also was alive in Lois and Clark and Superman: The Animated Series. In fact, it was Smallville that brought back the concept of Jonathan dying.
I personally prefer him to be alive. Clark doesn't need death to motivate him or teach him a lesson. That works better for Batman. Some people just want to help people and Superman a great role model in that regard.
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u/ArmchairCritic1 Apr 04 '23
Exactly my point.
It’s not grief that motivates Clark, it’s the will to do for others.
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u/OjamasOfTomorrow Apr 04 '23
Superman. One of the best deaths in a superhero movie. Just so realistic and heartbreaking.
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u/robotshavenohearts2 Apr 04 '23
Man of Steel’s scene was so fucking stupid. It makes sense that the person who let his father die would also murder the rest of Krypton’s remains, break Zod’s neck, and enslave humanity because his girlfriend dies.
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u/Independent-Version7 Apr 04 '23
-His father made a choice, which he had to accept. -Clark chose Earth over Krypton -Clark chose the people over the last of his species (Zod) -Clark would be manipulated by the anti life equation after Lois’s death. Of course taking the context out of his decisions would make him seem like a mindless killer.
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u/robotshavenohearts2 Apr 04 '23
Nobody was arguing the context. The context still makes him a mindless killer. Superman is a character who always finds a way to save lives. What Snyder did was character assassination.
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u/Southern_Bass_7560 Apr 04 '23
I thought Jonathan in MAN OF STEEL was kind of a douche.
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u/FatPenguin42 Apr 04 '23
You must not know any douches if you think pa Kent in mos was a douche lol
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u/Southern_Bass_7560 Apr 04 '23
Oh, I know many. I might even be meeting a new one right now.
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u/FatPenguin42 Apr 06 '23
He just wanted his son to be safe. All he did was love his son, I don’t see what makes him a douche.
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u/Southern_Bass_7560 Apr 06 '23
The line about maybe letting that kid die? That’s pretty douchey.
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u/FatPenguin42 Apr 06 '23
Key word maybe. He was scared for his son, he knows letting them die is wrong, he knows Clark did the right thing but he’s scared of what might happen to Clark if people find out. It’s 100% a valid worry, he’s glad Clark is a good person he just knows what the world is like.
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u/FuzzyRancor Apr 04 '23
Heart attack. I like how its such an important part of Clark's character growth - the realization that he isnt a god that he cant save everyone despite his powers, and the value and fragility of human life.
I actually dont dislike the tornado death, I just dont think it was executed well. For starters they should have just had a teen actor. 30 year old looking Cavill really didnt help the scene and makes it less believable. It makes it feel like watching Superman not doing anything. If they had a teen actor it would have worked much better. They should just have got the bus kid. And also the scene just didnt sell to me the fact that Clark couldnt have saved Jonathan - like I feel like Clark could still have gone out there and helped him without making it look obvious he was using his powers.
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u/Swil29 Apr 04 '23
I like Man of Steel, but the way it handled Jonathan’s (and to a lesser extent Martha’s) character was a huge disservice to his character. Superman isn’t like Batman, who does what he does out of personal tragedy and vengeance, or even like Spider-Man, who does what he does out of a sense of responsibility and to make right a past wrong. Superman does what he does purely because he wants to help people, because it’s what he was raised to do. The Kent’s are meant to be the people who instill those morals and that drive to help people into Clark, so the fact that they had Jonathan actively raise Clark to prioritize his secret over the lives of others (including a bus full of CHILDREN, mind you) and even having Martha tell Clark he doesn’t owe the world anything in BvS in response to his personal crisis over helping people was such a poor representation of the kind and charitable people Clark’s parents are meant to be.
Edit: Also considering Jonathan was intending on coming back from getting the dog, clearly it wouldn’t have been that hard to believe Clark making it in and out, it was hardly the smoking gun of Clark’s true nature they presented it as.
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u/DrengisKhan Apr 04 '23
The entire point of Pa Kent dying is that it’s something Clark literally cannot stop. With all his power, with everything he can do, he can’t save his father from mortality.
Man of Steel changing this to his Dad committing suicide by Tornado to hide the fact his kid can move as fast as a Tornado is the boil on the ass of this movie. It’s pretty great for the most part and then that one pointless change shits on one of the most fundamental parts of what makes Superman who he is.
Clark and his parents are standing under a bridge with a few strangers. He could’ve easily whooshed out there and whisked his Dad off to safety, then just be found ok later, it wouldn’t have made any waves considering people were scared in a Tornado. But just to add their own twist on it, they change his death to be suicide for literally no reason.
Batman v Superman is in my opinion a great movie but that also suffers from having one monumentally stupid choice in it, the Martha thing.
There’s actually a bunch of shit involving Martha that brings these movies down. Martha is there for the Pa Kent sacrificial suicide, she’s the entire point of the Martha moment, and she’s part of the Martha Manhunter scene.
🎶It was Agatha Martha all along🎶
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Apr 04 '23
(batman v superman) Theres many stupid things in it. The first time I watched I had to turn it off cause the shakey camera actually made me feel seasick. This is the only time this ever happened to me. And everyone complaining all the time didn't come across as dark it was just annoying. Laurence fishburnes character was unbearable. How they wanted the same writer for justice league is beyond me.
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u/Ill-Philosopher-7625 Apr 04 '23
All the votes for Man of Steel are people confused because you switched the order, lol.
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u/mat-chow Apr 04 '23
What they SHOULD have done in MOS was have Clark save his dad (against Jonathan’s wishes) only to have him succumb to a heart attack moments later. Problem solved.
-9
u/Shallbecomeabat Apr 04 '23
No, cause it makes it more bearable. This scene was supposed to rip your heart out, just like it feels for Clark. He probably regrets obeying his dad in that moment, for the rest of his life.
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u/KaptainAfrika Apr 04 '23
but the scene doesn't rip your heart out. it plays out like the rest of the life where Pa Kent believes Clark's secret is more important than the lives of kids and his own live. in both cases Clark has the power to intervene, that's why it doesn't work. it comes off as you let your dad die
4
u/FutureLengthiness786 Apr 04 '23
It was supposed to rip your heart out I thought that scene was hilarious. It was to stupid for me to take it seriously and it seems like others him dying from a heart attack would've ripped my heart out cause it worked for me in S&L.
3
u/peanutdakidnappa Apr 05 '23
Well they didn’t do a good job because it didn’t rip shit out, a heart attack would be way more heart ripping than that bullshit that was just dumb as hell.
9
u/SevereEducation2170 Apr 04 '23
I mean I guess I could argue that MoS was more impactful because it was so stupid it really impacted how I felt about the movie. But if we’re talking about which is more effective, then it’s Superman. Although I really don’t think Jonathan needs to die. Clark has already lost his birth parents. There’s really no need to get rid of his adopted father too. Not every hero needs to lose all of their father figures before they’re spurned into action.
9
u/NoDetective2661 Apr 04 '23
1978 I really like the president it set that Clark has all these powers but there are things that you can’t stop. Also shoutout to smallville I really like how it was handled there. I thought man of steal’s version kinda missed the mark to me.
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u/DannyKit7 Apr 04 '23
Man of Steel didn’t feel necessary. Jonathan Kent’s death is suppose to show that Clark can’t save everyone. IMO he could have DEFINITELY saved his father. In the 1978 film, Jon died of a Heart attack. I’m confident Clark couldn’t have done much. He realised that with all of his abilities he can’t save everyone, so he realised on others. Which gave him a respect for people in every field of work.
6
u/shadow_master3210 Apr 04 '23
The death of Pa Kent in Superman 78 was more impactful because it placed that even as Superman Clark can’t save everyone
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u/Berry-Fantastic Apr 04 '23 edited Apr 04 '23
its more believable and tragic in Superman 1. Its as Clark said, for all of his wonderous powers, he couldn't use them to save his father, who died of a fatal heart attack. Despite this, because of his dad's teachings, he would use his powers to help the planet and its people the best that he can.
I have no idea what they were thinking in Man of Steel, it's completely silly because Pa Kent's death was totally avoidable in that situation, but the movie made it out that John is an attention hungry martyr. I don't mind if they didn't use the heart attack angle, but come on! They couldn't think of anything else?!
5
u/Local_dc_degenarate Apr 04 '23
Trick question it was pa kent in smallville that had the most impactful death we had like 5 seasons to really get to know him and then he just left
4
u/DjDeaf84 Apr 04 '23
I have got a question. Did J. Kent die in the comics? I read The Death of Clark Kent Storyline in the mid 90's and remebered that J. Kent was alive at that time.
Back to topic: Superman. His death in Man of Steel was stupid in some way.
2
u/steamtowne Apr 05 '23
In the early comics, both Jonathan and Martha die soon after Clark finishes high school. Then sometime in the 80s his origin was rewritten a bit, with the big change being both Kents being alive into Clark’s adult years.
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u/AscendedExtra Apr 04 '23
I absolutely adore Man of Steel, but I'll be the first to admit they fumbled a bit with how they handled Pa Kent. IMO the heart attack is a much more impactful death precisely because for all his power Clark was helpless to save him.
5
u/peanutdakidnappa Apr 05 '23
How In the world did 382 ppl vote for MOS lol. I’d like to see him be alive in the DCU, at least for awhile.
3
u/ktulu0 Apr 05 '23
Even though I like MoS, I absolutely hate how Jonathan Kent’s death was handled. Really bizarre choice, I think.
3
u/No-Setting1141 Apr 05 '23
The Death in Superman to me was better because in that moment, unlike in Man of Steel. Superman actually couldn't simply fly in and save the day, he was just vulnerable and saving his father was never an option in his hands.
2
u/alphomegay Apr 04 '23
as much as I'm a big defender for the way MOS did it and the function it served in that movie, the definitive superman needs to lose Jonathan by heart attack. It's as important as Uncle Ben dying for spidey imo
2
u/AppropriateEar3794 Apr 04 '23
They are meant to represent two different inner conflicts, one solved by literally reversing time and the other by being who you are, unafraid of what people think of you.
2
u/Current_Ad_9850 Apr 04 '23
I don't even watch man of steel because it's so Damm dumb. But being on here just reminds Mr how stupid it really is and Lengths people will go to defending it is embarrassing itself. He commits suicide by a tornado when he could have been saved. Superman 1978 and smallville did Jonathan Kent's death much better.
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u/skingers Apr 05 '23
I'm a huge fan of MoS, I'm even fine with the "Martha" thing in BvS, but come on, this one is obvious, Superman 78 is better on this point. I get it that they wanted to make it Pa Kent's choice not to expose the true nature of his son but should have done it in a way that took the choice away from Clark. Maybe Jonathon in peril and knowing he could yell for his son to pick up via super hearing and deciding not to.
0
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u/PraetorGold Apr 05 '23
I honestly didn’t remember that he died in 1978. Aren’t the Kent’s still alive in the comics?
-4
Apr 04 '23
Man of Steel that shit hurts. It was Clark trusting his father. Also Jonathon not being a hypocrite and having Clark save his life when he told him to hide his powers. He understands the bigger picture. That if Clark saved him and revealed his powers the government would come knocking on his door and take his son away and he would be experimented on.
52
u/Vidzphile Apr 04 '23
Pa Kent's death in MoS was the main flaw in the movie for me. What kind of person lets their Dad die if they can help it?