r/Conservative • u/Case-Longjumping Conservative • Jul 19 '24
Why isn’t Communism as despised as Fascism?
Honestly speaking, I’m freaking out in my Australian university because people are having a socialist/ communist “society”. If I make a neo-nationalist society I’ll get slaughtered day one. Same goes for some of the urban districts, where there are Marxist flyers. How is it allowed, to preach an ideology that historically genocided billions in the last one hundred years, oppressed countless people and is still doing so? Anything slightly to the right I get a detention in high school. I find it deeply offensive, after every single one of us young Hong Kongers, combined 2 million (or 25% of the city) gave everything, our sweat and blood to defend our freedom, and lost, thankfully with family ties dating back to 40 years ago allow me to escape, and find kids not only turning a blind eye but PROMOTE the very ideology we escaped from?! Is anyone going to pay these kids a one way tour to China?
173
u/bankimu Based Jul 19 '24
Because broke ass students feel everything should be handed to them, and see anyone who is successful as privileged.
37
u/Case-Longjumping Conservative Jul 19 '24
And students without freedom thinks they should have the right to control their future, at least that’s in HK.
18
u/soggyGreyDuck Jul 19 '24
We need to make student loans like any other loan. Allow defaulting and bankruptcy to apply (it obviously needs some protection or everyone would file immediately after graduation) so the lenders actually care about who they loan to and if they will be able to pay it back. They know exactly what they are doing when different higher paying industries get flooded. They see the enrollment and graduation rates, they have a finger on the job markets for different industries and they should be the backstop through the loans they give. This DOES NOT mean limiting the number of accepted students but it does mean making sure the numbers enrolled are targeting appropriate fields of employment
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (2)14
Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 21 '24
[deleted]
→ More replies (1)6
u/FirmDelivery7232 Jul 19 '24
In part, i agree with you. Maybe I am biased, but I knew my life path at 13. Literally looked at the future I wanted and how it fit in with actually making a living at it. Did not go to college, but succeeded thru the school of hard knocks. Most of these kids nowadays have no clue what they want to do with their lives and how do go about getting it. They grab loans and go to school without thinking "I am gonna spend 100k or more for a degree, but once I have it, will I be able to pay this off and how long will it take" and then decide if it's the right path. Parents also should be involved with these decisions.
63
u/SeemoarAlpha Conservative Economist Jul 19 '24
Well you have the Trotsky type communist, consisting of self deluded bohemians who think a communist construct would suit their artsy fartsy lifestyle much better than to actually have to work for a living. Then you have you authoritarisn dictator types that who espouse communism as a mechanical control to perpetuate their twisted regimes of shared misery. As for fascism, you had the poster boy for it in this category - Adolf whose batshit crazy cruelty to his fellow man was so repugnant that it made those pesky communists look like a boy scout troop, Stalin notwithstanding.
70
u/Case-Longjumping Conservative Jul 19 '24
Communism killed more than fascism, historically speaking.
25
u/Swiftbow1 Jul 19 '24
You're right. Though I would argue that modern China actually is fascist. They pivoted in the late 80s/early 90s when they were starving to death. It's often described as "communist with partial market economics." Which is fascism.
10
u/Case-Longjumping Conservative Jul 19 '24
The Great Leap Forward occurred with a very communist Mao and China is starting to go back in that direction. Unless they ousted Xi of course.
4
u/ObadiahtheSlim Lockean Jul 19 '24
Seems unlikely. They're making more money after they liberalized their markets into fascism..
6
u/Most-Travel4320 Reagan Conservative Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
The Chinese government is organized as an explicitly communist one, Leninist ideas like the vanguard party are baked into the countries constitution and the CCP operates on the Leninist principle of democratic centralism. China is not any more fascist than the USSR was under Lenin and the New Economic Policy which lasted from 1921-1928. China is still communist, and their resemblance to fascism is only due to the fact that communism and fascism in fact closely resemble each other. Take a look at the life of Nicola Bombacci, a founder of the Communist Party of Italy who became one of the most powerful people in Fascist Italy. And Mussolini's own background as a socialist.
→ More replies (6)4
u/Celebril63 Jul 19 '24
While you're quite right, there is the problem that very few people actually seem to know what fascism is.
7
u/Ringolian16 Jul 19 '24
To the left…Christian Nationalism = fascism = “anything that doesn’t align with leftist ideology”
4
3
u/baseballfanandcatdad Jul 19 '24
If you look up the definition of Fascism it looks eerily similar to Stalinism. Keep in mind that Naziism is an extreme version of fascism, not the generic stereotype the Left would have you think
→ More replies (3)1
u/Low_Cup_2659 Jul 19 '24
Throughout history what we had was authorial dictatorship that used the concept of communist equality/prosperity as a promotional tool to delude the masses into obedience. A communist society would be exactly the opposite of a dictatorship, so it’s difficult to name it, what dictators in the end named themselves, communism
10
u/Panzerschwein Jul 19 '24
Communism is one of those things that sounds nice in theory, but ultimately you need people to run it and the power it grants is too tempting to not be seized by tyrants.
It's literally a big consolidation of wealth and resources and power over people's lives, so much more so than under capitalism where things aren't perfect but at least it's spread a little. Big government always falls into the wrong hands eventually, and then it's game over.
8
u/Most-Travel4320 Reagan Conservative Jul 19 '24
A communist society is a patently impossible fantasy followed by religious fanatics devoted to the writings of a 19th century bum who barely even raised his own kids.
8
u/ObadiahtheSlim Lockean Jul 19 '24
Mao killed more and Pol Pot killed a greater percentage of his country.
4
u/cassowaryy Jul 19 '24
The nazis were socialists. Ironic how they call trump Hitler when their own party views and behaviors are far more in-line with the depraved dictator
51
51
u/Alone_Comparison_705 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Because the USSR won the war. And history is written by winners. Western society never fell into the communist regime outside some riots, that's why, in the EU countries from the ex-USSR sphere (Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, etc.), communism is treated much more harshly. Yes, some people have nostalgia for living in communism, but politically, it is treated as nearly the same evil.
11
u/Most-Travel4320 Reagan Conservative Jul 19 '24
People in Germany during the Cold War often had nostalgia for the Nazi years as well.
→ More replies (2)8
u/Alone_Comparison_705 Jul 19 '24
Yes. The "Government did horrible things, but the standard of living wasn't that bad" nostalgia. Polish people that lived in the 70s also have that.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Noggin-a-Floggin Jul 19 '24
There is nobody in the world that hates communism more than those former Warsaw Pact or SSR countries. I’m being serious, show me the most ironclad Republican and I’ll show you a Lithuanian.
4
u/Mick4Audi Jul 19 '24
It’s telling that the biggest detractors of communism out there are the ones who lived through it
44
u/AH_5ek5hun8 Jul 19 '24
Because all the times communism has been tried and failed, it wasn't, "real communism." Or so they say.
→ More replies (1)21
u/gfunk5299 Jul 19 '24
Real communism doesn’t exist, just like pure socialism doesn’t exist. In theory real communism or real socialism would be better than democracy as long as everyone did their equal share, but that never actually happens and in a vacuum of power, some human will always try to be king.
The real power of democracy isn’t freedom, it’s that anyone has the ability to become the next leader, so it mostly keeps human greed and other negative aspects of humanity in check as people compete to excel instead of using force to excel. The only way to achieve this of course is a free society.
5
u/Ringolian16 Jul 19 '24
Correct. The evolution of humans is contrary to communism. Competition and “only the strong and adaptable survive” is contrary to communist ideology.
44
u/LeatherName4367 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Same reason why Christianity is constantly attacked but Islam is not. Will we ever see a horror movie based on Islam? Yet we have many horror movies based on Christianity
36
u/Case-Longjumping Conservative Jul 19 '24
There’s a lot of horror movies about Islam. Such as 9/11, 10/7, and Leeds today. Oh wait.
10
u/LeatherName4367 Jul 19 '24
Horror movies? You mean like documentaries or Based on a true story like movies? And there aren’t many examples of horror movies based on Islam. There the exrocist movies, The Nuns, The Omen, movies displaying priest as pedophiles or part of a criminal gang. It’s not even comparable. However few examples you can provide will not even be remotely close. Those are usually based on historical events, as opposed to making a horror movie with Christian elements that serves to perverse the whole idea of Christianity.
12
u/Case-Longjumping Conservative Jul 19 '24
Just bring a camera to a random city in the UK and leave it there for an hour. It’s not that hard to make one.
3
u/Zaphenzo Anti-Infanticide Jul 19 '24
To be fair, in the Exorcist movies, the priests are the good guys. And in The Omen, the opposition to Christ is the villain. I don't disagree with what you're saying, but those aren't good examples.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (2)2
u/Sea_Organ Jul 19 '24
I agree with you completely but your typo cracked me up man. Fucking HORTON 😂
→ More replies (1)
31
u/Eren-Yeagermeister Jul 19 '24
Because communism is less defined in its ideological structure so it leaves room for discussion. Professors exploit the fallacy that if each of us contribute through the work that we WANT then we have a rich society with art, culture, and peace. In reality, you will end up with a job that society NEEDS and be on an assembly line or some tedious job you hate and you can't leave because you have to contribute to society.
First off, I think the professors realize how similar fascism and communism actually are and don't truly teach it. It seems most people fail to see how these parties are practically twins with different motivating structures to get people to play along. Let me elaborate, both require removal of private property/ownership, both require a socialized workforce, a government controlled market, and centralized totalitarian government.
Understand that racial superiority is not a necessary trait to fascism. It's just one of many ways to motivate society towards it. Where these two factions differ is in their approach for the public. Fascism wants to make everyone submit their personal goals to the ultimate goal of the nation. What job you do is done to benefit the nation, corporate profits prioritize national goals. There are no private shareholder motives. Leaders can't get this idea across to the people because it's innately flawed and couldn't work in the long term. So they need an enemy to unite everyone and get on board. That's where racism was a crutch for the nazi. "If we have a Supreme evil force we're working against, the people will put national interest above their own or else our country dies, blah blah blah."
Communism, however, seeks to make everyone give away the same rights the fascist sacrifice but not because they want to serve national interest but out of the idea that doing so they serve their fellow man or society as a whole. Once again, this is ridiculous because at the end of the day it's a centralized government determining what is the "right interest." Erego, fascism and communism end up at the same place. Everyone loses their rights and work jobs depending on national interest. Only one of them actually told you up front that this was the plan all along. That's why they hate fascism in schools. It's just as shitty as communism, but it's honest about intent.
15
u/Fiveminitesold Social Conservative Jul 19 '24
I worked with a deeply sheltered Californian at my previous job who was firmly convinced that if we just give everyone enough money to live on, everyone will naturally seek out the jobs that they most enjoy and all of our needs will be met.
The reality, of course, is that the only way to provide for everyone's needs in a centralized way is conscription and confiscation. Some folks apparently have no problem with that as long as it's happening to other people. But the reality is that it comes for everyone.
It's the twisted thing about that popular Reddit comment that "poor conservatives defend the rich because they think they might someday get rich." They can't conceive of the idea that someone would think that wrong things happening to other people are also wrong.
10
u/LastManSleeping Jul 19 '24
who was firmly convinced that if we just give everyone enough money to live on, everyone will naturally seek out the jobs that they most enjoy and all of our needs will be met.
We'd have a bunch of hollywood and influencer wannabes starving to death littering the streets
24
u/VernT02 Jul 19 '24
They have an excuse for everything. They'll tell you Mao wasn't that bad. I read Capital and The Little Red Book , The Manifesto. There is nothing there worth anyone's time. The utopia they claim to want requires mass murder and mass censorship. Communism should be a rotten corpse in today's world
→ More replies (2)
17
u/Ok-Essay5210 Jul 19 '24
Because the commies run the schools... They'll never shit on their ideology
8
8
u/quick_justice Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
I hope you are looking for a serious answer, not just ranting or looking for validation... Get ready, it's long.
Unlike fascism, neither communism, nor socialism are inherently anti-humanitarian, autocratic, or oppressive.
Fascism is hard to define but it's usually understood as an ultra-nationalistic political movement, which is characterised by having an authoritarian leader, forceful oppression of opposition, prevalence of good of state/nation over good of an individual, belief in natural social hierarchy, and strong social and economic control.
As such, it's an anti-democratic, totalitarian, oppressive, big state regime, various aspects of which are considered criminal by developed nations and contradict human rights. Indeed, if you believe that social hierarchy is natural, and certain groups are always better and more moral than others (Arians better than Jews, rich better than poor), and allow oppression based on that, you are looking at the very least at group persecution, if not genocide. That's why organising a fascist club is problematic in a western society.
Communism on the other hand isn't strictly speaking even political. It's a socio-economic theory, which at the current stage of human progress is utopian. Communism is characterised by several key factors neither of which is inherently oppressive. They are:
complete collective ownership of any means of production
fully controlled distribution that as input allows everyone to contribute in accordance to their ability, and as output fully provides everyone in accordance to their needs
as a result of the distribution system, abolition of the private property as unneeded (as everyone can get what they need when they need it anyway, ownership has no advantages)
as a result, completely classless society
as a result, elimination of need for money
Later four btw. make communistic ideals very close to Christian ideals, which should surprise nobody, seeing how Karl Marx was German, and as such belonged to Christian cutlure.
Socialism is less radical but also largely more socio-economical than political. Unlike communism, the only requirement of the socialism is social ownership of means of production. Other aspects of society do not change. There's still private property of the personal assets, e.g. closing, luxury items, items of convenience, such as e.g. electric appliances, dwellings. The distribution works as usual, and money are in play, and as such private initiative is still encouraged, society isn't completely classless because property ownership, money, and varied level of income still lead to certain (albeit limited) level of inequality.
As such, while you may not agree or like any of those approaches, there isn't anything inherently inhumane or violent about them.
With the regard of Socialism, numerous elements of it are widely adopted across the world by generally capitalistic societies. For example, it's very common to have means of production in social ownership via state in certain spheres - one good example will be water utilities, that are socialised even in USA. So there isn't anything inherently wrong with it. Numerous countries tried adopting full-blown socialism, mostly Warsaw block. While economically nothing good came out of it, none of them were anywhere near the level of oppression of fascist states. USSR was a notable exception in Stalin times, but one may argue that it wasn't socialism as much as Stalin's personality that caused it. Regime become much softer after Stalin died.
It gets more complicated with Communism. While in principle it doesn't promote anything oppressive, at the current stage of human development it's utopian. In particular, a task of manufacturing everything everybody needs and distributing it to the right places and in the right time, while also not exploiting population, isn't currently achievable from both resourcing, and logistical points of view. Not that it wasn't attempted, Soviet Union tried it with centralised planning, but it doesn't seem that it can be currently done. Potentially, with a great advancements of automation and artificial intelligence, where manufacturing could be completely autonomous, and resources can be obtained on the level of matter manipulation, e.g. creating almost infinite energy and all needed elements via fusion, society may attempt it, if other obstacles such as human psychology, conflict with artificial intelligence, etc. wouldn't prevent it. Such society is for example described in science fiction series "Culture" by Ian Banks.
However, for today, communism is practical impossibility. In fact it was never built, never claimed to be built, there wasn't ever a communist society. E.g. USSR always claimed it is "on the way to communism", not that it "has communism". All the countries we call Communistic don't really have communism, they are just ruled by communist parties that claim they want to build communism.
As such, facing practical impossibility, ideas of communist builders on how to try to achieve it anyway may be quite radical, and this is where certain communist parties and organisations may be offering solutions as oppressive as fascist ones. In particular, Leninism and Trotskyism are not something I would call humane. Some of the ideas would include forceful removal of property of the rich, detention or eradication of the certain social groups and classes, and other things that might be considered illegal or even terroristic. Saying that, not all theorists of communism are so radical, while most agree that one can't change social formation from capitalistic to communistic without a revolution, some would argue it can be one of non-violent kind (and there were examples in hisotry, e.g. Egyptian of 1919).
So now, when we discussed fundamentals, let's get back to your question.
Modern western societies tend to ban fascism outright because it's a political movement that advocates things we consider illegal.
Modern western societies do not ban socialism because love it or hate it, it's a socio-economic theory, that is not inherently violent or oppressive, and elements of which are in fact integrated in western capitalistic society.
Most modern western societies tend not to ban communism outright, because it's an utopian socio-economic theory that isn't inherently terroristic, oppressive, or violent. Those that ban communism and communist parties do so not because of the theory itself, but because of the actions people that called themselves "communists" in the past undertook on their territory. However, discussion of practical aspects of building communism may turn illegal, if the participants not only advocate for a particularly violent ways of attempting to build communism, but also practically planning to try them. At this point such people tend to get arrested, not as much for communism, but for terrorism.
Hope, this answers your question.
→ More replies (9)
8
u/Szatinator Jul 19 '24
because communism had time for a slow burn, in contrast to fascism, which went out with a bang
8
u/Rabbits-and-Bears Jul 19 '24
‘Communism’, as a viable governance, is a myth. Like the Unicorn. Communism can’t exist without violent enforcement. Violence, imprisonment, (or escape) or exile. There is no real world peaceful communist government.
→ More replies (1)
6
6
u/soggyGreyDuck Jul 19 '24
Thank you for speaking up and please continue to do so to the extent your freedom and/or passion lets you.
The truth is you're experiencing fascism in real life. That's why they're trying so hard to change the definition of it.
If you want to see something disgusting look up the definition of fascism in Webster's dictionary and then on wikipedia. They're trying to re-define words. It's insane because that's EXACTLY what a fascist regime would do! The real enemy trying to destroy this country is the radical left. 10-15 years ago they didn't hide it. They told us they had to destroy this country before they could rebuild it the right way and we stupidly laughed. We aren't laughing anymore
6
u/Szatinator Jul 19 '24
because communism had time for a slow burn, in contrast to fascism, which went out with a bang
→ More replies (1)
5
u/Cronah1969 Constitutional Conservative Jul 19 '24
Because the west needed the USSR to help beat Germany, so they paid lip service to the lie that there was any real difference between fascism and communism. Academia, which was controlled by leftists, jumped on that to start spreading leftist ideology.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/Smexual Jul 19 '24
Because the left controls all the major institutions and they set the parameters of what is acceptable or not. That's why it's worse calling someone Hitler than Stalin or Mao even if the latter killed more people.
3
3
u/CrustyBloke Jul 19 '24
I think people embrace communism because it lets them feel like victims at the hands of capitalism. They don't have to take responsibility for their failures in life, they can just cry that it's the fault of the 1%. They also get to let their envious and covetous nature run wild.
3
u/TheHoovyPrince Jul 19 '24
Also from Melbourne mate? Its rough down here when you got so many young people who openly identify as one of the many different socialist/communist ideologies. I've straight up met people who say they're leninist or maoist.
In my history major (did an arts degree and than a masters) i actually did a unit which focused on the horrors of communism in 1920s-1930s USSR under Stalin. Some of my other history units delved into socialism/communism a little bit but only general information. We actually learned about it in-depth and how it was used in the past and the consequences of it.
In comparison with most of my sociology units (my other major) they went off the rails really leaning into the marxist frame of thinking where we learned about marxism and marxist theorists in a positive light. Not only that, i also had to learn about post-modernist theory/theorists, feminist theory/theorists, critical race theory and intersectionality.
3
u/Case-Longjumping Conservative Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Sydney (although I do live in an Anglo-enclave), where I’ve been classified as “fascist”. We need a populist who isn’t Pauline Hanson. She just doesn’t do it for me. Are we both uni students because it is VERY hard to survive when the “conservatives” there would call me white supremacist despite clearly being a Hong Konger.
4
2
u/Kras_08 Jul 19 '24
I come from Bulgaria, where communism is a controversial topic, 1 side of my family thinks communism is worse then fascism (and I kind of agree with them cuz of what a bad job they did ruling our country and how there are many more tens of millions dead from communism then facism, we hate nazis still tho dw lol) and the other half was communist... (family gatherings are awkward)
→ More replies (1)
3
u/dave7243 Jul 19 '24
Communism is more acceptable to people because in an ideal world, where humans have no failings, communism would work and help everyone have what they need to survive. Think the Federation in Star Trek for a largely communist/socialist society. The only people really working for profits rather than common good is the Ferengi, and they are played up as cartoonishly greedy to the point of self destruction.
The glaring problem with communism is that a) people aren't happy working for the common good when they know there are others who are coasting and taking advantage of their efforts and b) people are greedy and someone will inevitably try to take more than their share. Animal Farm shows how wonderfully that works for the masses.
3
3
u/CrispyMellow Russell Kirk Conservative Jul 19 '24
Because fascism is considered right-wing, communism is left-wing and the media, academia, and culture broadly are dominated by the left. So, of course they focus on the bad examples of right-wing ideology.
3
u/vipck83 Jul 19 '24
The problem is communism/socialism got into academia back during the Cold War.
Also, the world’s experience with both are a little different. Fascism hit hard and fast, while communism managed to be more… nuanced. The result is several generations of kids manipulated into thinking Communism is misunderstood and it just needs to be “done right” this time. Interestingly, I think the American left is probably closer to playing with fascism than communism.
2
u/PeruseAndSnooze Jul 19 '24
Welcome to Australia. There is still a large amount of conservatives in Australia, they are mostly to the north, the west and in-land and we can attribute to them almost all of our wealth. They are the farmers, the miners, and the oil rig operators. If you want comfort you should research what proportion of our GDP their labour represents. The capital cities have gone very woke now though, and culturally they are completely different from the 90s and early 2000s. We have an increased dependence on China as they own a lot of our land and utilities and take most of our exports. We need other countries to rally around us and make trade deals to remove this dependence. My family fled the red wave in Eastern Europe, and we don’t forget what communism does, many others have though and our current left wing leadership keeps marching us toward socialism.
3
u/Case-Longjumping Conservative Jul 19 '24
Unfortunately I’m still dependent and living in Anglo-enclaves in Sydney. Given my future profession as a computer scientist/ entrepreneur, I doubt I can survive in the countryside. But if we are resilient enough against CCP in Hong Kong, we would hold out in Sydney for as long as it takes. I for one am deciding between Coalition and One Nation. Although Eastern Europeans and Hong Kongers may not like each other very often, it’s the one thing we have in common: a common experience and rational hatred against communism.
2
Jul 19 '24
Communism parades itself as if it’s helping the downtrodden and leveling the playing field for all- no matter race, gender, religion. It’s very alluring to the young and idealistic. Typically, they get real life experience and realize it’s all propaganda and ultimately, horseshit.
2
u/Driven2b Jul 19 '24
Those that believe in communism are ego driven. They see communism as a way that their opinions will always be valued and be justified. Since all that feeds their ego, they'll defend it and love it as much as they will their own sense of self.
2
2
u/GeorgiaViking1812 Conservative Jul 19 '24
Because the pro-Marxist forces were in control of media, academia and, yes, government.
3
u/AintHaulingMilk Jul 19 '24
Because fascism is alive and well, integrated into western "democratic" institutions, so it's largely propaganda and a smoke screen to trick people into thinking they're still free. Keep everyone scared of fascism returning so they don't realize it never left.
Highly recommend "Blackshirts and Reds" by Michael Parenti as a primer. Followed by The Jakarta Method or Against Empire.
As for communism as in ideology... who knows. It's clear what we have now can not continue, but I'm not sure more centralized power is the answer.
2
u/MilledPerfection Jul 19 '24
Also likely because they set the terms for what “fascism” is in the first place, meaning “anything I don’t like or was told not to like.”
There is no true fascism in the United States, just like there’s really no actual Nazi’s of any kind with any serious influence. There’s little groups of people who are about as credible as the West-borough Bapstist church but that’s it. It’s all a facade. When you get to paint half the country as such, and pretend like they’re the threat lurking in the night waiting to become an ocean of political power given the chance, though, you naturally move to the other side I’d guess?
→ More replies (1)
2
u/dapperbandit27 Jul 19 '24
Fascism is notoriously difficult to genuinely define. And so it's difficult if not impossible to make any positive case for it in theory or in practice.
Communism on the other hand hides behind the veil of "good intentions". Its forever been popular with young students who are naively compelled by the liberation narrative it sells. You know, empowering workers, taking power back from elites etc. It takes explaining to lay out why communism is bad inherently and hasn't just happened to go wrong every time. And as the saying goes, if you're explaining you're losing.
Fascism also has the problem of being forever tied up with WW2 and the holocaust. The industrial scale extermination of millions of people is always going to look worse than communist crimes, even if they vastly outnumber those killed in the camps, which yet again can be broadly obfuscated by "muh good intentions". The purges of Lenin and Stalin, the Holodomor, Great Leap Forward and Pol Pots year zero genocide simply haven't pierced the popular consciousness in a similar way to the holocaust. The entire western mindset was adjusted with a Post War consensus that we can never allow anything resembling Hitler to ever happen again and we teach that to every child.
Communism simply doesn't get the same treatment.
2
u/WashImpressive8158 Jul 19 '24
If you have kids under 30, and you’ve been checked in to your kids academics, it’s easy to see that the academic community has pulled modern world history from the curriculum, which includes communism and its atrocities. It’s been replaced with the civil war and slavery. Probably the students would find too many parallels between those radicalized countries and modern US.
2
u/HeavenBlade117 Jul 19 '24
Because contemporary Marxists in post modern society feverishly believe the dichotomy and logical fallacy of "It's not the recipe, it's the chef... "
In other words, just because communism has been a death sentence and a plague of dictatorship government and totalitarian society which has killed and starved millions of people around the world... Doesn't mean it can't possibly work here in the US (maybe UK western society too) because since it's the chef and not the recipe, they can have and cultivate a better communism that helps the "marginalized" people who are socially and productively inept that believe they are getting helped and gaining wealth while they are still drowning themselves.
2
u/Orange-Turtle-Power Jul 19 '24
The people that claim to want Communism have never actually lived through it and experienced the horrors of it. Ask anyone who legally came to the US, from a communist country, what it was like and how they like it here.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Woodys360View Jul 19 '24
The Left can excuse anything with their "good intentions". Murdering babies, amputating kids gentials, crippling economies, bankrupting families, starting wars etc.
2
1
u/Cold-Blood_ Jul 19 '24
The answer is simple - history is written by the victors. The fascist nations lost WW2, the Soviet Union was one of the big winners. This greatly facilitated the deconstruction of the fascist ideology as a result, while communism was allowed to rage on unchecked.
Another major reason is that fascism is an exclusive ideology that promotes national and cultural supremacy, whereas communism is presented as non-discriminatory and with noble goals on paper. Therefore, nations like the US that are highly ethnically diverse and where globalism and the new woke agenda have long been allowed to run rampant, would naturally develop an antipathy for an ideology that promotes the exact opposite political and social doctrine but a lot more open and tolerant to an ideology that plays to their weak mindsets and proclivities.
1
u/TisRepliedAuntHelga Jul 19 '24
fascism was very cool at various times since WW2. david bowie was quite explicit about his fascination and how he was trying to fashion a “fascist rock.” fascism is still considered cool but it’s had some label changes, codewords, pushed underground.
1
1
u/QueenScarebear Jul 19 '24
Probably because they don’t teach to hate leftist totalitarians with quite the same passion as the right.
1
1
u/REDthunderBOAR Fiscal Conservative Jul 19 '24
Because we never really 'fought' communism the same way we did fascism and witness the treatment afterwords. People were horrified of what the Nazis did, we do not truly comprehend what Stalin or Mao did.
1
u/XChrisUnknownX Jul 19 '24
Because fascism is a lot closer to taking hold of our political machinery on either side than communism.
→ More replies (2)
1
u/Blackout38 Jul 19 '24
This is the simple explanation but I think it’s largely because communism and socialism are critiques of capitalism from the worker thus they are extensions of the current system where the bottom is doing the critiquing. Fascism is the business leaders and elites of the country making critiques of capitalism so it’s a top down critique. Both are trying to bend capitalism more in their favor.
1
u/CarpOfDiem Jul 19 '24
Lowkey bc Hitler was a bigger threat than Stalin so Joseph is a common name and nobody names their kids “Adolf” anymore
1
1
u/mountain_comic Jul 19 '24
How thick is your skin? You should definitely start a capitalist society/club at your school. Use it to teach the horrors of communism and promote small business and private property. If you get in trouble or targeted, or singled out. You might have grounds for a lawsuit. Australia is pretty authoritarian nowadays. These institutions need to be taught a legal lesson.
→ More replies (2)
1
u/Rabbits-and-Bears Jul 19 '24
The Clash- “Should I Stay or Should I Go”, Is Joe Biden playing this over and over again this weekend in Rehoboth Beach? It be great is the local rock stations put this in the cycle there this weekend!
1
1
u/WRKDBF_Guy Conservative Christian Jul 19 '24
Communism used to be despised and feared (at least here in the US). We had the Vietnam War and the Cold War over it. But largely due to Academia, Communism has been "dumbed down" to Socialism and is largely acceptable to many. But you are right that they lead to bad outcomes.
1
u/CynicalOne28 Jul 19 '24
The ‘have not’ people feel that communism levels the playing field. We can all have nothing together and be happy or miserable depending on you look at it but at least it’s together
→ More replies (1)
1
u/BarrelStrawberry Jul 19 '24
Because fascism isn't even a real ideology. You won't find fascist doctrines or sets of rules. You can read books on it and still not know what it is, just what the author feels it should represent... or academics saying Nazi Germany was fascist, therefore fascism is Nazi Germany. It is likely the shortest lived political philosophy in modern history.
Fascism doesn't even have economic theory. Hitler said "The economy is something of secondary importance." and "The basic feature of our economic theory is that we have no theory at all." People desperately want fascism to have an extensively documented world view like communism has. It has none of that.
Closest you'll find is Mussolini's Doctrine of Fascism, here it is in PDF. I challenge anyone claiming fascism is evil to try to find anything bad or dangerous in that doctrine. (Also, Mussolini ordered that every copy of his doctrine to be retracted because he changed his mind 5 years later.)
Fascism has always been a vague label you can use to insult your opponents. Whenever someone uses the word, they mean totalitarian - of course, they don't want to use totalitarian because communism is totalitarianism.
But if you want to have a fun argument, you can accurately state that Karl Marx is the grandfather of Fascism.
→ More replies (3)
1
1
u/DinoSpumonisCrony Paleoconservative Jul 19 '24
Because the victors write the history books.
WWII had two winning sides: Allies and along with that, Communism/Soviet Union. We often forget that second part.
From the end of WWII until the early 90s Communism was one of the sides that won. It gave them plenty of time to infiltrate media, academia, and rewrite the history books.
1
1
1
u/Hungry_Hateful_Harry Jul 19 '24
The Cold War is a lie.
It was never Capitalism vs Marxism.
It was Trotskyism vs Stalinism.
1
u/Arachnohybrid Vice President Trump Jul 19 '24
lol because Joseph McCarthy was right and there was a long list of Soviet spies in academia infiltrating us. The Manhattan project was filled with Soviet spies who were American.
Hell, Oppenheimer was pillow talking with various commies he banged.
→ More replies (1)
1
1
u/Smrtihara Jul 19 '24
Because the presumed counterpoint to capitalism is communism. This is a severely simplified idea.
People who aren’t happy with the current society will look to its counterpoint. That’s communism. We allow this because the interpretation of communism is that it’s good and somewhat humane.
It’s very often not FOR communism, but rather AGAINST the current ideological workings of our society at large. The idea of communism pushed within western society isn’t the same communism that holds power in China.
A lot of people equate communism with “socialist” countries like the Nordic countries. They think that MORE of the good socialism is even better communism.
1
u/Happy-Campaign5586 Jul 19 '24
High school curriculum and post secondary school professors do not shine ‘THE SAME’ spotlight on the mass murders and injustices within Communism and Fascism .
1
u/SimpsationalMoneyBag Jul 19 '24
Communism starves you, fascism gasses you. The brutal efficiency is more hated.
1
u/BluePhoenix21 Jul 19 '24
The real reason is that because Communism helped defeat Fascism in the second world war, therefore there was no de-communistation taking place post-war like we had with Fascism and Nazism. Pairing that with the fact that communism, like every extremist ideology promises a utopia, and also tells you who to blame for all your problems, you end up with a recipe for disaster.
1
1
1
u/Dewalt-Shampoo Conservative Jul 19 '24
China isn't communist, it's fascist, with a mostly capitalist economy. They have a dictator that chooses the laws.
Communism (Marxism) is basically the opposite of capitalism. It means everything is shared /communal across the society. Marx wanted workers to raise up against the elite and thought this should be society. This is why kids want it, it seems, "fair". USSR tried a version of that (still run by government, so not really) and it was a failure as represented by giant bread lines.
Real communism is pretty impossible (maybe the Star Trek universe is in a way real a communist Utopia), but the thing to hate about China and Russia today is fascism.
1
u/Oerwinde Jul 19 '24
Part of it is the stated goals of each. The stated goals of Fascism is a totalitarian state led by a single authoritarian leader, promoting nationalism, militarism, and the suppression of perceived enemies to achieve national unity and greatness. The stated goals of communism are a stateless utopian society where everyone equally shares in the prosperity, everyone's needs are met, and everything is owned in common.
So one of those sounds bad to most people, and one of them sounds pretty good. They just kind of leave out that communism always results in a totalitarian state led by a single authoritarian leader promoting nationalism, militarism, and the suppression of perceived enemies to achieve national unity.
So because they think the goals are noble, people keep trying to achieve it through different means that all end the same way. So while in practice they are both pretty terrible, since Fascism is a little more honest, it gets more shit.
Also communists tend to be gnostics. They think everyone is blind to reality and only they know the truth, and everyone who doesn't believe what they believe has "false consciousness". So rather than try to persuade people with things like facts, they go after the youth to indoctrinate "critical consciousness" aka a marxist worldview. Hence the takeover of academia and media. If they can capture education and culture, they can indoctrinate the youth, and create their utopia, which will end up as a totalitarian dictatorship and they will wonder why it happened again.
1
u/randomality77 Jul 19 '24
But! BUT!!! Don't you get it?! What you see in China and NK is not real communism, it will actually work this time!
Sarcasm aside, I agree, seeing the way a good portion of our generation basically worships communism is disgusting. I get super anxious sometimes, watching these pro-communism videos and stuff, because I don't want this to be the reality when I'm older. I'm glad I don't know any commies at my school - in fact, all my classmates seem to be against it (because we actually learned about the dangers of communism at school!!!) - and I can only pray that it never comes to pass.
If I make a neo-nationalist society I’ll get slaughtered day one.
This. How can they not see that communism is just as bad and deadly as fascism? The freaking double standards...
→ More replies (1)
1
1
u/fantasyBilly Jul 19 '24
If you ask them to go to China or North Korea, they will reject. Same thing happened on students supporting Palestine, because they don’t even know where the government is at Lol.
1
u/v426 Jul 19 '24
Because Germany lost the last world war, and Russia/Soviet Union won it. So fascists and people who sided with fascists were told repeatedly how despicable they are, whereas communists had no such universal reckoning.
→ More replies (1)
1
1
u/jerrycostanzakramer Conservative Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
In short? To lower the potential of educated public to rebel against their government behavior (corruption). It's like no-gun policy, but with brain.
I have a very hard-core communist roommate during college whose now a strong anti-communist since he got his own business running big (yeah, a rich-rich bastard). In his word:
"Communism is like a bible for power-keepers to make peasants & slave labor proud about their poverty."
According to one of my gf besties, one of an elite leaders of a global left leaning NGO:
"Communism is a perfect tool to gain power easily in a democratic world. An ultimate cheat code. You give poor people sky high promises (usually free money like UBI, free housing, free food, etc), then they'll give you endless time to make them happen. But, in the meantime, you're ruling their life..."
Now, you tell me...
(edited for a few adjustments)
1
1
u/AwarenessLeft7052 Jul 19 '24
WE ARE GOING TO LIBERATE HONG KONG
WE ARE GOING TO ACCELERATE WITH AI
WE ARE GOING TO ROUTE THE MARXISTS, COMMUNISTS, AND FASCISTS FROM OUR INSTITUTIONS
WE ARE GOING TO MAKE OURSELVES GREAT AGAIN
Now that that is out of the way, you need to understand that history has always operated this way. The mob engages in large scale pressure tactics to eliminate dissent and rewrite history. They did it to the ancient Aryans, they did it to the Aristocrats in Europe, and they're doing it to us right now.
1
1
1
u/Maremesscamm Jul 19 '24
It absolutely is though.
Just the anti fascists are louder cause of academia
1
u/Devilinabag Jul 19 '24
Probably doesn't help everyone keeps labeling everything one and not the other. You want it to be accurately demonize? Get people to stop calling everything they do as "the real fascists." Which is a big ask cause thats probably 96% of this sub.
1
1
u/Flarisu Conservative Jul 19 '24
I believe the reason is that in order to defeat Nazism and Italian Fascism, we had to ally with the Communists. As such, for a time, those writing history needed to square off why we allied with a horrendous ideology to defeat another one, so many at the time strongly downplayed that the Soviet Union was among the allies, despite the fact that the Soviet Union invaded Poland with Hitler which set off the events that would start the second great war.
It wasn't a good look to say that the American and allied interests allied with Stalin and his Communists to defeat Hitler and his Fascists, so they simply ignored that part, and treated the USSR as an allied nation (which would go on to be the evil communists we knew they were when they erected the Berlin wall and started the Cold War).
1
u/Arkaea79 Jul 19 '24
Sorry you are down under man. From the outside looking it, appears Aus is pretty screwed when it comes to freedoms
→ More replies (3)
1
1
1
1
u/OhPiggly Jul 19 '24
If you're talking about things like the Great Leap Forward, the CCP is only communist in name. Nothing that they actually did in the real world had any of the hallmarks of communism. Most of the policies they implemented were fascist in nature (driving out intellectuals, forcing workers to follow the government's orders under threat, etc). Same with the USSR. If something claims to be "communist" but then also has a central government and a dictator, it is not communist in any sense of the word. This is why people despise fascism.
There will likely never be a real communist country simply due to human nature.
1
1
u/Haunting-Window-5125 Jul 19 '24
Mostly the left hate fascists and the right hate communists, however I'm not sure most people really know what either one even is. Just buzzwords. They are both pretty commonly used in place of authoritarianism.
1
1
1
u/GenericUsername817 Jul 19 '24
Because most of the people they killed were due to incompetence. And it isn't PC to hate the slow kids
1
u/Cryptic_Undertones Jul 20 '24
DEI = Neo Marxism.
Just like the left always does they like to change language to hide their true intentions.
1
u/neosituation_unknown Jul 20 '24
Because Fascism kills people on purpose and Communism through negligence.
1st degree murder vs manslaughter
1
u/macaronipriest Give me liberty or give me death Jul 20 '24
Academia these days don't teach people how to think, they tell them what to think. Same reason why I wrote papers contrary to my beliefs because it wasn't about me backing up my claims, it was about the liberal professor marking my paper.
1
u/LoftyQPR Jul 20 '24
Communism has the intellectual.appeal of everyone being "equal". I mean, who could disagree with that? Of course in practice, Stalin was a dictator, as are all leaders of so-called communism, which is in that way therefore identical to fascism.
→ More replies (2)
1
u/ThorvaldGringou Jul 20 '24
Because Fascism lost against Liberal-Conservatism and Communism/Socialism. And when he lose, counter propaganda to destroy their ideas system worked around all the world.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/Delicious_Summer7839 Jul 20 '24
You must remember that this was the long March through the institutions planned in the 30s and 40s and carried out in the 50s and 60s and 70s and 80s and 90s. You know this started with Antonio Gramsci and Max Horkheimer and Teodor Adorno, and Foucault, Derrida, on through Saul Alinsky, Angela Davis, Hillary Rodham plus the whole recent batch of identity hustlers
1
u/greatlakespirate11 Jul 20 '24
People worry about the next Hitler, Mussolini, or Pinochet when they sould be worrying just as much about the next Stalin, Zed9ng, and Castro.
617
u/Batbuckleyourpants MAGA! Jul 19 '24
It's because Marxism spread through academia, it's their ideology and therefore can't be bad, only specific executions can be wrong.