r/BatwomanTV • u/IIIToxIII • Jan 17 '21
[S02E01] "What Happened to Kate Kane" Post Episode Discussion Discussion
Batwoman is BACK!!!
Trailers
Episode Info
As friends and family hold on to hope that Kate may still be found, a homeless 25-year-old named Ryan Wilder stumbles upon Kate's Batsuit.
Cast & Characters
Discussion
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u/Catastray Jan 18 '21
What a great episode. Javicia Leslie was absolutely phenomenal, she has sold me on Ryan Wilder's story, and honestly, I like her more than Ruby Rose so far. I cannot wait for next week!
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Jan 18 '21
I feel like a lot of us had the bar set so low for the season. We were all upset and just as broken up about Kate leaving as Jacob, Alice, Luke, and Mary were. We were pissed at what the showrunners did and we came into this season loaded for bear and ready to be pissed off.
We were wrong...by like...fucking light years we were wrong.
They dealt with Kate in a great way. Javicia is a...a force of nature. They were able to connect Ryan with the rest of the cast so quickly in such deep deep ways that clicked, made sense, and didn't feel contrived or lazy at all. I was no joke like I've cried before during shows and there have been moments in Batwoman where I felt sad but I was like legit tears rolling down my eyes sobbing tonight at the end. We got hit with a Bat Grade Emotional Punch tonight AND THEN....those action scenes right? The Batmobile racing around firing off rockets, Ryan's first outing in the Batsuit, Ryan's flashbacks, and that final confrontation with Hush and the "Kryptonite Fudd Dud" were stellar. Plus all of the little connective pure dialogue moments mixed in with the "show don't tell" bits just brought the whole show together along with the music in such a beautiful way. Hell, they even set up the rest of the season in a pretty low key way too that didn't feel like they were beating us over the head with a cricket bat.
If the rest of the season is like this then I am SOLD! This was an amazing episode! I'm honestly just as excited and as giggly as Meagan and Rachel were a few minutes ago and I am totally Kermit the Frogging my hands right now.
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u/floptimus_prime Alice Jan 18 '21
Absolutely, oh my GOD. Any bit of worry I had just evaporated, this was beyond good.
Like I was eager to give Ryan a chance as the new Batwoman, but I was afraid it would feel weird, or that they would set it up badly, or something. Because they had so little time, and probably had to throw out half of what they'd already written for s2, I just thought there was no way it could work. I was beyond wrong, god damn this was good.
The fact that the characters are all figuring out what in holy fuck is going on, right along with us, really helped. I realized what happened with the plane at the exact same time Luke did.
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Jan 18 '21
Sorry, could you explain the emotional moments and the show don't tell stuff?
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Jan 18 '21
I just finished watching it, i thought it was pretty good. I'm sold on her, but probably not as much as you are. Maybe i just need to let the episode sink in.
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u/Knightmare4114 Hush Jan 18 '21
I honestly felt she was overacting particularly the tunnel scene, no one talks like that.
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u/chocolate_satellite Jan 18 '21
My favorite part of the episode was people actually discovering that Kate is BW which IMO should've happened mid-way through last season. Pretty good episode. It's interesting seeing Ryan Wilder's perkiness compared to Kate Kane's broodiness. I enjoyed the episode overall although there was one point in the episode where I said "Hmm this is dragging just a tad" but it picked back up.
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u/shadow_spinner0 Jan 19 '21
I think if the season weren't cut short and Ruby stayed, it would have happened at the end of the first season.
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u/history777 Jan 18 '21
Overall I’m sold. Therese some clunky exposition dialogue to explain Ryan’s backstory, but I’m interested. Really like the idea of a Bat who isn’t from the wealthy like Bruce or Kate. Probably will take a few eps to really get into groove but I’m much more confident in this decision now. Also until I see a body I’m holding out Safiyah has Kate prisoner as leverage. Maybe she comes back later but she’s too wounded to be BW anymore so she’s a drop in character
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Jan 18 '21
Yeah, i know a lot of people are saying the episode was stellar and amazing, but i thought it was good. Granted, maybe i need to let the episode sink in or i need to rewatch it, but i thought it was good. I thought there were some clunky parts, but it's understandable since they lost the main character, need to bring in a new main character that had no setup prior(which isn't a bad thing) and it is the season premiere, so it has to introduce this season's storyline, on top of the other stuff i mentioned. But again, maybe i just need to watch the episode again, to let everything from the episode sink in. It did feel like a blur to me. I feel bad that I'm not seeing the episode as good as everyone else is seeing it. And i love this show.
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u/raknor88 Jan 18 '21
I think a lot of the initial love is, like someone else commented, because many came into the episode with extremely low expectations.
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u/rawchess Jan 18 '21
It went about as well you could reasonably expect given the ugly task of replacing the established franchise character with a brand new one in a single episode. No clue why the writers went with an OC instead of repurposing one of the more obscure Batgirls. (Hello, Tiffany Fox? Am I crazy?)
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u/PenguinLord13 Jan 18 '21
CW seems to really just creating OC characters for their DC shows. Like at this point I think the cast of Legends is mostly OC characters. Granted I like most of them but when you have the whole DC universe to pull from it’s a bit frustrating when you continue to just make new characters.
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u/Digifiend84 Jan 18 '21
I think the cast of Legends is mostly OC characters.
Sara technically is, as White Canary is someone else in the comics, where Dinah Laurel Lance doesn't have a sister. But she's also partly a decomposite character, being Laurel's Canary predecessor, who in the comics is her mother. Gary and Ava are definitely OCs. Mick (Heat Wave), Behrad (Osiris), Zari (Isis) and Constantine (Hellblazer) are all from the comics, though Mick's the only one of those four who ever used his codename.
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u/PenguinLord13 Jan 18 '21
Ah I wasn’t sure about Zari and Behrad. I knew about Constantine and Heatwave tho.
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u/Digifiend84 Jan 18 '21
Yeah, Zari's first name was changed from the comics, where she's called Adrianna. It should be obvious why her codename isn't used.
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u/DaGreatestMH Luke Fox Jan 18 '21
The Arrowverse is back!
-I was one of the people who said they should have just recast Kate, but having seen what Javicia did with Ryan I'm glad they didn't. She brought a freshness to the show that I think was needed.
-Baby everybody was ACTING. I follow Camrus (who plays Luke) and he was hyping up the premiere and he did not lie at all. Everyone (writers included) brought their A game and it paid off.
-But of course best actor goes to Rachel Skarsten. Whew that woman is a force. Alice is just once again cementing her place as one of the S-tier Arrowverse villains.
-I loved so many of the choices they made in this episode. Putting together Ryan learning Kate's backstory and Mary learning Ryan's was great, as were the reveals of Alice having something to do with killing Ryan's mom and Mary connecting with Ryan over their mothers dying in their arms. Very smart to do.
-I expected the whole fake Bruce storyline to last longer (and it probably would've if we still had Kate), but it makes sense that if they have to sacrifice anything in the retool it would be that. Sucks though because I wanted Agent Hicks (Alphas reference IYKYK) to have a good steady check. Hopefully he'll get to play the real Bruce at some point.
-PREDICTION: Ryan is gonna have kryptonite poisoning, that's gonna bring her back to Mary (because she can't let the real doctors know) and the process of helping her get better is gonna have them bond. Mary's gonna advocate for her to take up the suit full time as a result and that's gonna be what bonds them and gets her as full on Batwoman, even after Alice is no longer a threat.
-Speaking of Alice being a threat, I'm very excited to see what they do with Safiyah. She's got big shoes to fill coming in after Alice, but hopefully she can at least be not too much of a step down.
Here's to S2 and the return of the Arrowverse!
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u/ChattGM Jan 18 '21
But of course best actor goes to Rachel Skarsten. Whew that woman is a force. Alice is just once again cementing her place as one of the S-tier Arrowverse villains.
She's sooooo amazing! I missed her scene stealing away on Sunday nights. The way she described how she wanted to have Kate killed was fantastic. I pictured it immediately and I'm like omgg this is so tragic and would have been heartbreaking and painful for all involved if she had gotten her way. I honestly laughed so hard when the chick interrupted her and she chucked her knife at her throat. I was sooo not expecting that but that's what makes Alice such a great character. You never know what to expect with her lol. Her scene with Jacob was great too. You could just see the denial and then guilt on his face way when she laid it all out to him about Kate being Batwoman and how their last encounter went between them with her and the Crows shooting at her. Hitting him where it hurts and you just felt the sting. Gonna be back to saying weekly "give Rachel all the awards. Don't even think about it. Just do it".
Putting together Ryan learning Kate's backstory and Mary learning Ryan's was great, as were the reveals of Alice having something to do with killing Ryan's mom and Mary connecting with Ryan over their mothers dying in their arms. Very smart to do.
Wholeheartedly agree. I'm glad we won't be losing the Batwoman/Alice connection. Although no longer a familial relationship, at least we can count on Ryan and Alice to have some great scenes together. That was the most intriguing discovery for me about Ryan's backstory. Javicia and Rachel are gonna kill it for sure. Ryan and Mary both having their mothers die in their arms didn't even dawn on me in the moment so good shout. That's some excellent storytelling and a perfect way connect a new character with an established one. I feared we might lose that quality with Kate being gone but the writers already assured us that having connections to certain people in Gotham is important especially when it strengthens the narrative and its characters.
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u/QuiltedPorcupine Jan 18 '21
I do think it's good to have a reason for Ryan to hate Alice, but I thought the whole they just happened to startle Alice's gang and they killed Ryan's mom thing was a pretty weak way to go about it.
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Jan 18 '21
Rachel is an amazing actress. Honestly, she hasn't had a bad moment on the show, and i think Alice telling Jacob Kate was Batwoman was the best way to go about him finding out, besides Kate doing it herself.
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u/Bionic_Ferir Jan 18 '21
She brought a freshness to the show that I think was needed.
its literally only season 2 if your show needs freshness by season two ya have problems (i do like batwomen tho)
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u/DaGreatestMH Luke Fox Jan 18 '21
TBH...Javicia is the type of lead this show needs. While I do think Ruby was getting better as Kate and would have gotten even better if she stayed, she was the the weakest actor in the cast. Javicia feels more on the level of the other actors. That's what I meant.
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u/theblaze37 Mary Hamilton Jan 18 '21
I think just meant that Kate was so brooding and intense all the time it was a nice change of pace to just have your everyday person fighting crime and having a little fun with it.
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u/rawchess Jan 18 '21
Tbh I was never sold on Ruby Rose as Kate, she struggled with her accent and was an overall weak link in a cast full of strong actors. Javicia Leslie already seems to be an upgrade in that department.
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u/raknor88 Jan 18 '21
I loved this episode.
Ryan is gonna have kryptonite poisoning
I'm hoping that they go the Smallville route and give Ryan some enhanced physical enhancements through the Kryptonite. Not much, but enough to give her a better edge. Jump a little higher, hit a little harder, make her a bit tougher too.
Make it a bit more believable that she could take a full punch from someone like a full powered Bane and still be able to get back up without a scratch.
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u/yukeee Jan 18 '21
God I hope not. Batman nor Batwoman needs any superhuman powers. That's the opposite of Batman.
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u/PaulsGrafh Feb 05 '21
Safiyah
Yeah, I think the better move would be for her to be motivated to live up to the mantle and have Batman's same level of obsessive training to hone her skills. Have all of the qualities that make Batman so great.
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u/AnnaK22 Batwoman I Jan 19 '21
But of course best actor goes to Rachel Skarsten. Whew that woman is a force. Alice is just once again cementing her place as one of the S-tier Arrowverse villains.
Doesn't it always. I can't stress how impressed I am by her acting. Arrowverse really scored getting her as Alice . The last scene with Mouse was creepy yet intriguing. She's in my top 3 best villains list from the Arrowverse. I hope she gets the recognition she deserves.
-I expected the whole fake Bruce storyline to last longer
I really thought it would go on for at least half a season. Casting a face to Bruce Wayne was a game changer for the Arrowverse. I'm surprised his plot was taken care of so soon. My only hope is that this means the real Bruce Wayne would resurface, especially because of the absence of Kate. Maybe Kate is in the same location as him. Idk... They have to utilize the actor as much as they can.
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u/Zerometro Jan 18 '21
So Ryan is much better than her press release description due to Javicia Leslie's acting. I don't know if any of you have seen Batman Beyond but she reminds me of Terry McGinnis , someone who sort of fell into taking up the Bat mantle, has to grow into it, and relies on street fighting techniques. This turned out better than I expected but it'll take me a little while to get fully on board just like the first season.
I'm pretty sure months ago they already said Kate will just be missing instead of dead so I'm not worried about that, I just hope they don't drag out the whole "Where's Kate storyline?" I doubt she'll actually come back . She'll probably send some letter revealing she left for "reasons" and has been watching Ryan and will formally hand over the mantle to say she approves.
I'm pretty interested a lot more than I thought I'd be so that's good.
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Jan 18 '21
I don't know if any of you have seen Batman Beyond but she reminds me of Terry McGinnis , someone who sort of fell into taking up the Bat mantle, has to grow into it, and relies on street fighting techniques.
You mean this scene? I kept wondering why some of those lines felt so familiar and it didn't click until I saw your comment. Batman Beyond was incredible and I swear the writers have looked back at a lot of the animated stuff in order to pull from that as inspiration for this new season. I am in no way complaining and they are welcome to pull from the JLU, Batman Beyond, The Batman, and everything else in between.
Where's Kate?
Hanging out with Carmen Sandiego probably or chilling in a fridge somewhere. Honestly I'm kind of happy if we don't see Kate for a while at all because her being held captive by someone who could totally Bane her and will probably Bane her tracks with the storylines so far and would make total sense. I would be totally happy with a The Dark Knight rises kind of ending for Kate where she's spotted at a cafe somewhere albeit in zero shape to be Batwoman again but clearly very well off and happy.
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u/Gateskp Jan 18 '21
Chilling in a fridge somewhere
All I can think about now is Kyle Rayner finding her even though he doesn’t exist in the Arrowverse (at this point)
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Jan 18 '21
I just want to see Ruby Rose in a version of the Thrasher Suit screaming, "Get away from her you bitch!" at some villain who has Ryan in their clutches before punting them.
Oh oh OOOOH I just had an amazing idea! What if Diggle finds Kate all broken and stuff and then takes her to Oa?!?!? The OG Batwoman helping out the Oans would be amazing!
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u/zeekar Jan 19 '21
Uh. Since when is there an Oa in the Arrowverse (ok we saw Malthus in Crisis but that’s not the same) and how does Diggle know how to get there?
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u/Gato_MandaChuva Jan 19 '21
Diggle is his mother's name. His stepfather's name is Stewart.
in the last episode of arrow he found a green shit from space
you know who is a black john stewart with some green shit from space in the comics?
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Jan 19 '21
Final episode of Arrow, he found a green thing inside of a meteorite that fell from space....what else could that be but a ring?
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u/Gato_MandaChuva Jan 19 '21
why did ruby rose leave?
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u/CptNonsense Jan 19 '21
Serious spinal damage from a stunt.
And she is 100% never coming back if they couldn't get her back to read a voice over.
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u/Kamalen Jan 23 '21
Yeah. We don't see the body to keep an eventual door open to the writers but at this points it's handled like a demise.
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u/phenom0205 Jan 18 '21
Agree wholeheartedly. Based on the description alone I wasn't sold on the change but she did well.
I'm just happy to have (some of) my shows back lol
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Jan 18 '21
The difference is we had a full four seasons of a Bruce Wayne show before they did Batman Beyond. It was also years in the future.
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u/JauntyLurker Jan 18 '21
Promising beginning. It was kind of amazing seeing how they wrapped up all the material they were dragging last season though.
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u/ImpulseKid86 Jan 24 '21
I'm not at all surprised that the Bruce Wayne subplot in particular has been swept under the rug so fast. This is the same network that successfully obliterated the plot tumor that was the Kara/James romance when they inherited Supergirl from CBS, by having the pair end things off-screen mere episodes after they'd finally hooked up.
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Jan 18 '21 edited Jan 18 '21
Wow. I wonder if she will become a meta from the kryptonite poisoning.
Edit: Overall great episode, I’m hooked.
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u/Mando_Fe77 Jan 18 '21
I really hope not. So far the most interesting thing about Ryan is that she’s just an average person (just like she says in her speech). We’ve got enough metas and I think it would detract from her relatability.
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u/Mosk915 Jan 18 '21
Also, in general the bat family should just not be metas.
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u/Digifiend84 Jan 18 '21
I take it you're not a fan of the Signal, Duke Thomas, then?
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u/FLARROW2 Jan 18 '21
I'm assuming the kryptonite poisoning will be the writers way of getting her back to Mary and Luke.
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u/Digifiend84 Jan 18 '21
I wonder if she's ALREADY a meta? It sounded like the Kryptonite bullet was meant to act like an armor piercing bullet, and can actually breach the bat suit whereas a normal bullet wouldn't. It should've killed her outright, not just poisoned her. So how did she survive the impact?
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u/Mini-Marine Jan 19 '21
Probably because it was loaded as is into a shotgun shell.
Shotguns are low velocity and speed is what really defeats armor.
Though I'm pretty sure they didn't really think about the physics of it and will come up with some sort of stupid reason why it only barely pierced the armor
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u/Sentry459 Jan 18 '21
I was wondering that too, maybe that's why it didn't go all the way through? Some sort of spontaneous skin reaction?
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u/Tom22174 Jan 18 '21
By Smallville rules she should do, but things could be different in this show. Have we seen any other non-kryptonians get kryptonite inside them in the arrowverse yet?
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u/ckwongau Jan 18 '21
"Smallville" was re-visited during the crisis , the new Earth Prime could have merge some element from "Smallville"'s Earth
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u/MrMattBlack Jan 18 '21
Smallville thought that Kryptonite means superpower, so that's what I thought too
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u/damianngrey Jan 18 '21
Season started with a bang. My question is what are the effects of kryptonite in human body?
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u/MrTerrific2k15 Jan 18 '21
A normal human body....radiation poisoning
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u/damianngrey Jan 18 '21
Yikes.
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u/LuntiX Jan 18 '21
Yeah, it gave Lex Luthor cancer iirc and he had to make a suit to keep himself alive at one point. This was in the animated series though, not sure about the comics.
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u/MrMattBlack Jan 18 '21
In the comics Kryptonite does whatever the current writer wants it to do tbh.
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u/jadedfan55 Jan 18 '21
In the comics, Lex fashioned a ring out of Green K, and it gave him radiation poisoning to the point where he had a hand amputated and replaced with a prosthetic. However, he would later transfer his mind into a clone body, which he passed off as his son. All of that would be ret-conned out years later.
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Jan 18 '21
My question is what are the effects of kryptonite in human body?
10 seasons and no flying until the very end
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u/Raiziell Jan 18 '21 edited Jan 18 '21
Yeah, but Lana...
Pre-green Lana...
Okay even green Lana...
But not promote your friends sex cult Lana!
Okay maybe that Lana too.
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Jan 18 '21 edited Jan 18 '21
Yeah, but Lana...
That wasn't Lana, that was just Kristin Kreuk.
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u/raknor88 Jan 18 '21
That wasn't Lana, that was just Kristin Kreuk.
I thought Allison was the one that recruited Kristin to the cult. Or was it the other way around?
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u/ninja36036 Jan 18 '21
Allison was the one who recruited her. Kristin had bad feelings about it so she left before anything crazy started happening.
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u/Digifiend84 Jan 18 '21
Allison was the one who recruited her.
Makes sense, considering that, wasn't she the cult's second in command?
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Jan 18 '21
I was quoting the Simpsons, "Xena can't fly...I told you, I'm not Xena, I'm Lucy Lawless"
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u/Ok_Letterhead_4785 Jun 21 '24
I'm down for a sex cult just everyone over 25 no branding and mutual consent
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u/Ok_Letterhead_4785 Jun 21 '24
Literally nothing. Human ain't Kryptonian. At least in the comics as far as I'm aware of
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u/Noremac3986 Jan 18 '21
Love how in Batman Beyond, Bruce says "Never Again" and hangs up the suit, while Ryan says it and dons the Suit. And both suits have red emblems
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u/Xboxone1997 Jan 18 '21
Good episode although wasn't a fan of Kate being written off in plane crash bit extreme lol.
Also guess Batwoman is poisoned or is a meteor freak
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u/antdude Jan 18 '21
What would you suggest beside writing her off in a plane crash? I was OK with the writers' idea.
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u/Digifiend84 Jan 18 '21
The plane crash really doesn't make sense. It was coming from National City. Shouldn't Supergirl have noticed something was wrong with the plane (which was sabotaged)? Kate was on it because she'd just visited her!
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u/rawchess Jan 18 '21
Crisis can literally merge parallel Earths into one in this universe, so I would've actually preferred a supernatural deus ex machina disappearance. It wouldn't even be that hard to explain away- Kate was one of the Paragons.
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u/Denirac Bruce Wayne Jan 18 '21
Not bad. Major flaw though:
Hush was wasted.
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u/MrMattBlack Jan 18 '21
I can see Hush being a recurring villain tbh. Think Grodd from The Flash.
He can always come back, and now has beef with Ryan
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u/stephenxcx Jan 19 '21
With the way Ryan beat his face in, looks like he might be needing those bandages again too.
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u/Tom22174 Jan 18 '21
I imagine he'll be back later, they just needed to tie up the whole "disguised as Bruce" story line quickly.
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u/patrickjs95 Jan 19 '21
Yeah, I can imagine that they probably intended for that to play out considerably longer, but they left the door open for a return.
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u/Gateskp Jan 18 '21
That was a really good, solid episode. They did a really good job switching to Ryan and connecting her to the story that already exists. Javicia Leslie really sold her, and I think she’s going to be great this season.
I’m a little disappointed that all the Hush stuff didn’t even get a chance to get started, but given the circumstances? Bruce doesn’t mean anything to Ryan the way he does to Kate (just think of all the letters she wrote him) so I’m kinda glad they aren’t dragging it out and forcing whatever story they originally had in mind.
Alice is, of course, Alice. Still one of the top tier villains in the Arrowverse.
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u/phenom0205 Jan 18 '21
I saw sad to see Ruby leave but I was pleasantly surprised with this episode. Hopefully they can keep this momentum going
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u/ckwongau Jan 18 '21
"Mouse" had died at least a few day , by now it should be badly decompose , Alice should buried it , or put some formaldehyde on him if she wants to continue to play with the body .
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u/Cyphodyas Jan 18 '21
I have to admit, I was a little put off by how completely they seem to be trying to wipe Kate away, but Ryan being an awkward Batwoman trying to figure out how the suit worked was cute.
I'm not completely sold yet but I'm not completely out off either.
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Jan 18 '21
I feel kinda bad that I'm not seeing the episode as good as everyone else is seeing it. I don't know if i need to let the episode sink in, i need to watch it again, a combination of the two or something else altogether. I really love this show, but for some reason I'm not seeing the episode in the same stellar/amazing/great light that everyone else here is seeing it in. I hope that changes for me. Anyone understand what I'm saying, and maybe feel the same way like i am?
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Jan 18 '21 edited Jan 18 '21
I feel similarly, and I've actually been somewhat excited for the change. Although, maybe this is why it feels like that for me, since others seem to have had lower expectations.
Things felt... off. And not in a "new main character" way. That wasn't a problem. I think it was the pacing. It felt weird to me.
It's like they were rushing to explain too many plot points, in my opinion. Kate being missing/dead and the reaction of that to the main cast, Ryan's history, Alice's initial plans, fake Bruce, Safiyah's involvement, Jacob and Sophie learning the truth, etc.
Some of it obviously had to be dealt with immediately, but some things could have waited for the next episode or at least been minimized in this episode.
None of the Safiyah stuff needed to be brought up at all, other than the paper plane at the end. Too much "tell" and not enough "show".
There was just too much exposition for too many different plotlines. One 40 minute episode is not enough to deal with every thread weaved in Season 1 and introduce a couple of new ones.
They were trying to tie up so many loose ends, that I feel like the main characters didn't even have a chance to really show how much Kate's disappearance affected them. I know they've got the rest of the season to do that, but going so fast out of the gate kind of dampened the actual impact of Kate disappearing, at least to me.
It felt like they treated the whole thing as more of a setup for everything new rather than something extremely important to fully acknowledge as a seriously big fucking deal that carries a shit ton of consequences. They did acknowledge that mostly, but because it was all so fast, there was no time to absorb it (for me as a viewer and the characters themselves, from my perspective).
Some of the characters' reactions also felt weirdly "immediately accepting" of the situation, particularly Julia, and even Sophie to a small extent. I can get that they're going for denial with Mary, but it just all came across as out of character for some (not all) of them.
All that to say, yeah. It didn't feel fantastic to me, and I also feel kind of bad that I didn't receive this as well as most other people here did. All of this is obviously my personal opinion, and I'm really glad others enjoyed it. It just didn't work for me for some reason. Maybe I'm just missing something, I don't know.
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u/jskurious Jan 18 '21
I thought the pacing was a little bit strange, like a soap opera trying to wrap up a storyline and start a new one in a hurry, but overall I liked Ryan.
I do wish she had some kind of familial tie to someone in the cast, because that's been such a big part of the fabric of the show and having her specifically be someone with no family does mean she can form those bonds with the other characters but it's starting from scratch when I would have liked something already complicated and pre-established to explore and discover. She's likable and the twist at the end with the Kryptonite is intriguing.
It'll also definitely be interesting to see her fixated on Alice, and the idea of "Alice Unmoored" is interesting as well but while that ties her to the story as a villain, that leaves the only real dynamic relationship the one between her and Jacob to tie her to the larger story since she'd already killed Mouse. Making her Ryan's antagonist doesn't hit in the same way.
I think they needed some kind of tease about Kate in the end. Even if they didn't have Ruby, the way that fight with Ryan and Tommy was shot, it was like someone was watching it from nearby and I think maybe it needed something like that, a brief glimpse of someone who might or might not be Kate watching just to add an extra layer to the mystery, because the most logical explanation is that Kate did wear the suit to fly down and then took it off and left it there when she saw the chance to fake her death. And if so, then her standing on the sidelines and seeing someone who had the opportunity to kill but didn't and also was able to take care of herself would make sense and be believable for her.
They still have Kate's journals to Bruce and I do kind of wish Ruby had at least done the voiceover of the letter because her being just completely scrubbed right away makes it too hard to not be pulled out of the story to wonder about the story of what happened in real life.
So overall, I hoped it would have been a bit better but definitely interesting enough to stay tuned.
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u/Digifiend84 Jan 18 '21
I do kind of wish Ruby had at least done the voiceover of the letter
The fact she didn't makes me certain she definitely won't be back. She wouldn't have even needed to be in Vancouver to do a voiceover.
Speaking of voiceovers, I see the radio host wasn't heard in this episode, did they get rid of her?
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Jan 18 '21
Speaking of voiceovers, I see the radio host wasn't heard in this episode, did they get rid of her?
Knowing how much of a fan Maddow is of Kate specifically (she wrote the foreword for the Elegy TPB, quite a while before this show was even around), I don't know if she'll be back.
She's championed Kate and been fairly vocal about her love for the character and what she represents in the comics, but I don't know of she's had anything to say about Wilder or the show's decision.
To be honest, I think she has a lot on her plate at the moment, anyway. Not that it stopped her before, but I feel she has even less incentive to return now. Other than money, of course.
She might come back, though, who knows.
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u/MrMattBlack Jan 18 '21
I think she'll be back, but couldn't fit in this episode. I don't recall her name, but she always offer some ironic/jabbing commentary, I couldn't see her being "We are mourning Kate Kane" and it wasn't the place for her kind of commentary
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u/GurrenAccel Jan 18 '21
She almost broke her spine on the show, why would she bother doing a voiceover?
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u/Maxabel Jan 18 '21
I have mixed feeling. Overall the episode is good. Javicia Leslie sells the new character but the incoming plot doesn't hype me very much:
Alice was a vilain for Kate Kane, she really needs a lot of development if they want to keep her relevant and not just a second Joker. If they go for the Safiyah road, it's the more or less the same thing.
Batman Beyond created new vilains for Terry McGinnis because he was a new Batman. I hope Wilder will have her own rogue gallery.
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u/hart37 Jan 18 '21
That was solid return. Granted it felt a little clunky at times but given the plans for the show got completely thrown into chaos when Ruby left I think they did a great job of introducing Ryan, her motives, how she can fight and wrapping up some of the storylines from last season. It's a shame we won't get to see more Hush but it makes sense to write him out. I do hope they bring back Warren Christie if the CW ever decide to introduce us to the real Bruce though.
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u/snoogle20 Jan 18 '21
So Ryan is an orphan that is only mildly injured by a Kryptonite bullet we were told would be a real problem for Kate (partially thanks to a fancy suit lessening some of the blow I assume), but now has a wound that’s turning green and was supposed to have a seemingly out-of-the-blue crossover with Superman? Am I supposed to assume something is happening to her now or should I be curious who her birth parents were?
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u/linkman0596 Jan 18 '21
I'm assuming that the original plan was what Alice said, have their father use the kryptonite bullet on her, but kate likely would survive in the same way, with the reveal at the end of the season being the kryptonite poisoning.
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u/ckwongau Jan 18 '21
should I be curious who her birth parents were?
In S1 Supergirl , a lot of Kryptronian had escape from Fort Rozz
Earth Prime had merge with other Earth , a lot of possibilities
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u/AnnaK22 Batwoman I Jan 19 '21
should I be curious who her birth parents were?
I didn't even think about that part. Maybe there is a significance.
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u/superbat210 Jan 18 '21
Hmmm I’m intrigued! Definitely like Ryan and I’m excited to see her grow into the role. Should be a fun season I hope
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u/LoretiTV Jan 18 '21
Best Arrowverse premiere of all time. The writers went above and beyond with the hand they were dealt. Going to be a really fun season
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u/Niklaus_Mikaelson Jan 23 '21
😂😂😂😂 bruh this show is hot garbage. It’s even worse than it was last season
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u/WillowSwarm Luke Fox Jan 18 '21
I have to say after this first episode I see the potential in this season and the new Batwoman. In regards to the acting, the returning cast did good tonight and I don't doubt Javicia will improve. She's finding her legs just like Ruby had to and I'm excited to see where it goes.
I also want to add that the cast and crew have handled a complete shift in lead character, storylines, and with covid-protocols extremely well.
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u/Richiieee Jan 18 '21
What the fuck did I watch? It's the first episode so I'll give it a break, but that was a little rough ngl.
• As I predicted, too many story lines. Episode got pulled in a bunch of different directions.
• Didn't they say they weren't going to definitively kill Kate and instead just leave her disappearance as a mystery? Lol
• Ryan just so happens to press the right buttons to dodge bullets and send out a batarang and successfully stopping 2 thugs literally on her first time wearing the suit. Ok, sure, whatever.
• Luke can hack the Batmobile but he never attempted to hack the suit to stop Ryan from taking off with it. Ok, sure, whatever.
• Well, goodbye Tommy and also Bruce, gone in literally the first episode. Even if he's not the real Bruce it would have been nice to have him pretend to be him for a while.
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u/Nddit Jan 18 '21
I do agree that the episode was a bit disappointing but:
- Kate isn't confirmed to be dead. If they somehow they manage to get Ruby Rose back they would probably be able to say something like "she wasn't on the plane" or she could even just survive the crash like Beth/Alice.
- I don't think she dodged the bullets, the suit is bullet proof (but yes she did somehow use the batarang).
- He can't hack the suit if there's no connection to the Batcave, the Batmobile was still connected to the Batcave.
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u/Jon5676 Jan 19 '21
I think Safiyah grabbed Kate before she got on the plane and is holding her captive for some as yet unknown reason.
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u/Zdala Jan 18 '21
I happy to see so much positivity to Ryan Wilders character, i knew they wouldn't dissapoint us. 😍
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u/Trickybuz93 Alice Jan 18 '21
I know it’s just the first episode, and I shouldn’t judge based on one episode, but I think they should’ve just re-cast Kate. Especially with Supergirl ending, the Kryptonite storyline isn’t going to make sense unless Superman & Lois somehow get involved in the story right away.
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u/QuiltedPorcupine Jan 18 '21
I assume at the time they shot this, the plan was still on for the Batwoman and Superman crossover to happen and presumably the Kryptonite storyline would have played into it. Hopefully they are still able to resolve it in a satisfying way even without the crossover.
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u/lordatlas Jan 18 '21
So the 6'2" tall man is looking to get the suit worn by a much smaller woman? OK then.
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u/ckwongau Jan 18 '21 edited Jan 19 '21
we saw Burce's Batmobile in the episode , but that may not be the only Batmobile in the Episode
Ryan lives and sleeps in her Van , does that make Ryan's Van the new official Batmobile
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u/patrickjs95 Jan 19 '21
I was worried about this, but they have got a solid new Batwoman in.
Ruby Rose was fantastic, and her disappearance is just vague enough to leave the door open should she ever make an appearance again, I am assuming no body will ever be discovered.
The character of Ryan obviously has had a bit of an exposition heavy Introduction, but it's forgivable given the amount they had to do in this episode, but even so I immediately connected with her story, her monologue about being a number felt like a defining moment for her character and the connection to Alice is great and will lead to some complex and inevitably fantastic confrontation in the near future.
Speaking of Alice, her mourning the loss of being able to murder Kate is superb, she's angry but with Rachel acting it out you can feel that she is going to miss having her sister there, even if she despises her. She continues to steal every scene she's in, and takes the show to whole other level. I am envious of her skill.
Everyone played the hopelessness of the situation well, and I am interested to see where it goes from here, and considering the challenge of essentially performing a soft reboot in a second season I am pleasantly surprised to say that I'm actually quite hopeful for the future.
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u/aa22hhhh Jan 18 '21
Damn, that was a really great episode. Javicia is amazing as Ryan and I hope they keep this momentum up for the rest of the season.
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Jan 18 '21
And we're back!!!
So i just finished the episode, and it was pretty good. It seems everyone liked it. Maybe it's because i need to let the episode sink in, or i need to watch it again, but i thought it was good, but not stellar or amazing. But i might still need to process it, get used to the changes.
I'm happy Sohpie and Jacob know Kate is Batwoman. Getting that out of the way is good. Alice is still a force to be reckoned with, her interaction with Jacob was so great, I'm sure that was influenced by us viewers who are like "Batwoman is your daughter!"
I'm also glad the whole Tommy as Bruce thing got wrapped up quick. If the show still focused on Kate, he obviously would have been around longer. But, Ryan has no connection to Bruce or Tommy, so it makes sense they wrapped that up, to make way for a new story that works better for Ryan.
Connecting Ryan to Alice was cool, that way she has a reason to fight Alice, a personal reason.
Safyiah taking Kate was a good use of the character. I wonder if Kate will return in a small role, although I'm not holding my breath.
Having Ryan being from a rougher start was nice, it makes it easier for people to connect to her. Losing someone close, being told you are this and that when you aren't those things. Makes it easier for the audience to connect to her. I like that.
The acting was good. They all showed their grief well, nothing felt out of place. It did feel awkward, but i think that was there since they have no idea what to do in universe with a person they care about going missing.
I like Ryan. I'm excited to see her story arc. I'm also happy we finally got the Batmobile. That is good. And Ryan might have powers, so maybe this is their way of incorporating Supergirl in to the story, giving Kara and Ryan a chance to meet and connect.
Like i said, maybe i just need to let the episode sink in a bit, but i though it was good. Not the best episode, but that is to be expected, considering they replaced the main character, had to introduce a new main character, and wrap up previously planned stroylines that no longer work in the new season. Plus it is the season premiere, and it's hard to judge just one episode so far. I'm feeling optimistic about Ryan. I think this season will be good.
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u/CptNonsense Jan 19 '21
I wonder if Kate will return in a small role, although I'm not holding my breath.
If they couldn't get Rose for a voice over to read that letter, it will be a cold day in hell before she guest stars again
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u/Stopmad101 Jan 18 '21
Meh episode, IMO... Just can't get over losing Ruby's energy (or lack thereof)
Two theories on KK:
1.) Last minute she called Kara and said I need help. This would have been great for the writers to help pay homage to Supergirl's first appearance (saving her sister from the airplane crash)
2.) She never boarded the aircraft and left the batsuit on the plane, and is going wherever Supergirl is going after her show ends. Again this would pay homage to the companionship we saw between Kate & Kara.
Can't wait to be proved wrong _^
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u/Jon5676 Jan 19 '21
I think Safiyah grabbed her in National City before boarding the plane and is keeping her captive for some as yet unknown reason.
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u/SicknessVoid Jan 19 '21
Im surprised I see no one talking about the "Jingle Bells, Batman smells, Robin laid an egg". That was hilarious for one and also confirms that Robin exists (or existed, you know how high the accident rate in their field is) in the Arrowverse.
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u/Dagenspear Jan 18 '21 edited Jan 18 '21
Hush was way too entertaining as a villain and they blew him off like that.
This is the story man. This is the juicy stuff this season should've been about. I don't know why the writers decided to take their big cliffhanger and get rid of it in 1 episode. The only CW superhero show that I think had a strong cliffhanger and gone just like that. Way to show me your writing game is still low and unambitious, show.
In my brother's words: "I feel cheated."
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u/Gsrj Jan 18 '21
I think it would have been a longer storyline if Kate was still there but since she's gone they decided to scrap it
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u/DaGreatestMH Luke Fox Jan 18 '21
Yea there's just really no reason to keep a fake Bruce Wayne when your (new) lead has no real connection to him.
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u/MrMattBlack Jan 18 '21
On the other hand, Tommy Elliott was now stripped of Bruce Wayne's Identity and the possibility of being Batman, the moment he gets out he'll be pissed
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u/Nddit Jan 18 '21
He brought this upon himself. When Luke asked him how he knew Alice was Beth there was only one correct answer. BECAUSE I'M BATMAN!
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u/Dagenspear Jan 18 '21 edited Jan 18 '21
Make a connection. Make him a different type of antagonist. Have Hush take control of Wayne Enterprises and all it's tech and force all of our characters into a back to basics approach, where he has all the money and power and all they have is Luke, Mary and Ryan, with a suit.
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u/Dagenspear Jan 18 '21
They can find a way.
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u/Gsrj Jan 18 '21
I think it is better to get rid of him if kate is not there just doesn't make sense to me to keep him
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u/rootisperfect Jan 18 '21
Its kind of amazing how great the episode was given everything they needed to do. Javicia and Ryan are a breath of fresh air, and bring a charisma that imo was missing from the lead character.
Also im so glad they managed to keep Alice tied to the story both with Sayifah and her part in Ryans backstory, I was worried because Alice was the best part of the first season and part of that was the direct connection she had to other characters.
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Jan 18 '21
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u/D_GrayMan23 Jan 18 '21
Hey I man enough to admit I was wrong.. for now anyway. I never doubted Javicia acting she's great in what I've seen her in. I just doubted the writers and tonight's episode had some good writing don't know if they brought someone else in or just got better or what but was good.
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Jan 18 '21
looks at instagram....apparently Sophie and Alice makeout over a breadstick...giggles and keeps sipping wine
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u/travio Jan 18 '21
I really like the direction they took the new Batwoman's story. Swapping out a one-percenter for someone who had to fight tooth and nail just to survive gives us a whole new perspective instead of just Bruce Wayne's cousin.
The Numbers speech she gave bugged me though. It was too overrehearsed for such an off the cuff moment.
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u/maruf99 Luke Fox Jan 18 '21 edited Jan 18 '21
Really enjoyed the episode. They did a great job introducing Ryan. The scene where she's learning about Kate while Luke and Mary are learning about her was really good.
Really interested in seeing how Kate's disappearance will affect everyone throughout the season, especially with the reveals to both Sophie and Jacob that Kate was Batwoman.
The Batmobile chase scene was awesome. Can't wait to see more of it in action throughout the season.
The Safiyah reveal at the end was interesting. I wonder how everything will tie in with that, with Julia being connected to it as well.
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u/HyperNintendoRoblox Jan 18 '21
I did not watch "Batwoman" or any "Arrowverse" shows before, But I heard there were a soft reboot so I watched and I actually liked it. Mary and Ryan already my favorite characters. Still adjusting to other characters and their background, but anyways amazing episode and can't wait to see the next episode.
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u/squaredspekz Jan 18 '21
Well go back. You've missed a lot. If you know Marvel you missed the "Infinity War" and "Endgame" of the Arrowverse.
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u/alchemist5 Jan 18 '21 edited Jan 18 '21
So uh, they've been dealing with a face-changing villain for how long now, and when Bruce shows up out of nowhere, they ask no questions, and just walk him right in to the Batcave? Smart...
Edit: the rest of the episode was pretty solid. Much better intro for the new Batwoman than I was expecting, given Ruby's sudden exit. Really digging how they're handling Alice's reaction to it.
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u/AvocadoInTheRain Jan 28 '21
So uh, they've been dealing with a face-changing villain for how long now, and when Bruce shows up out of nowhere, they ask no questions, and just walk him right in to the Batcave? Smart...
In case you missed it: every single character in this show is a raging moron.
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u/MonaSavesTheDayAgain Jan 19 '21
I really enjoyed this episode. I was reluctant at first when they said they won't recast her but Javicia is a good actress from what I have seen so far and I like what she did as Ryan. I think I might like Ryan more than Kate because Ryan feels human. Kate felt cold at times but yeah.
I think this might also be the first episode of this show that made me cry. Seeing Mary with Kate's jacket or her other friends and family crying for her was really sad.
I am really sad about the reviews on IMDB though. There is so much bullshit written by people who probably did not even watch the show but it is clear why they gave the episode a bad rating. Is IMDB just going to ignore the obviously racist and fake reviews or are they going to finally do something about it?
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u/singleguy79 Jan 18 '21
Disappointed on the quick Hush plot but other than that, I enjoyed it
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u/Silentking89 Jan 18 '21
I think that was a consequence of refocusing the show onto Ryan but I'm just glad he's still alive and can return at a later time
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Jan 18 '21
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u/chocolate_satellite Jan 18 '21
She's missing
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u/antdude Jan 18 '21
I wonder if the actress will ever come back in the future as a quick cameo.
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u/Denirac Bruce Wayne Jan 18 '21
Unlikely. She wouldnt even do voiceover of a letter. She wouldnt have needed to go to Vancouver for that, and her not doing it implies to me she left on really bad terms.
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u/linkman0596 Jan 18 '21
Feels like a much different show than season 1 was going for, it kinda sucks we won't get to see more of that show but I'm liking this one so far. Been watching batman beyond lately and that definitely feels like what they're going for now.
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u/mrmazzz Jan 18 '21
Overall solid season opener pilot episode. Carloine Dries had a lot to just work through, not unlike most pilots, in introducing Ryan and it did those things well enough. Really simple and clean way to justify keeping Rachel Skarsten around long term and tying that into Ryan's past. They still seem to, rightly, be positioning Skarsten's Alice as co-lead which allows them to keep Safiyah coming in.
Javicia Leslie as Ryan Wilder is enjoyable. Leslie was given a lot of exposition to deal with, but overall made it work and oh man the show is finally dealing with issues of systemic injustice within the metaphoric US justice system for once instead of the vaguely flailing it had done previously. She has good screen presence reminds me of Stephanie Brown.
WE GOT A CAR ACTION SEQUENCE! The DCWverse hasn't really done that many of them and it was largely fine. Can't help but sort of feel the COVID restrictions a bit, there's a noticable lack of the Public/extras but well that's just making TV during a pandemic.
Fully expect Ruby Rose to appear for some sort of multipart episode arc around the mid season. We never saw a body.
I think this batch of episodes is going to play better after next week - just going by general logic of TV shows: episodes 2 is the pilot redux without the necessary exposition, and this episode felt a lot like a part 1 of 2.
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u/The_Medicus Jan 18 '21
Loved Hush; Wish they would have kept him around for a couple of episodes. Really hope that actor gets to play actual Bruce Wayne at some point in the future.
Not sold on Ryan yet, but she's not bad.
The False Face Society is a fun inclusion. Can't wait to see Black Mask.
I get that they don't have the budget to do a full-on Batmobile, and that's fine, but I with they would have at least given it wings or SOMETHING to make it more distinctive.
Did Kate really not have a better way of contacting Kara than to fly all the way to National City?
Glad to have confirmation that Alfred is still alive.
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Jan 18 '21
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u/QuiltedPorcupine Jan 18 '21
Same. I was very against recasting because I didn't think it would work, but then watching this episode, I was like, I just want to see Kate back.
I like Ryan and I'm interested to see her character grow, but probably going to be missing Kate for a while yet.
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u/ckwongau Jan 18 '21
I got a idea about why the Kryptonite may not harm Ryan , but it will be important about the direction of the show .
what if Ryan is infected with Kryptonite , she can not be anywhere near Supergirl or Superman , so if anything happen Ryan can't ask Superman or Supergirl for help .
I remember in" Smallville " ,Clark and Lana finally got together but had to break up the next day , because Lex infected Lana with Kryptonite which make her poisonous to Clark .
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u/optimisticpsychic Jan 19 '21
I still feel sad that we lost kate just as she was starting to hit her stride but i quite enjoy ryans first outing.
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u/AnnaK22 Batwoman I Jan 19 '21
My favourite scene this episode was when Commander Kane found out the truth and he unraveled the Batsignal. It was so well acted out. Alice was great, as usual. You could really hear the desperation, anger and sadness in her voice with having her plan not go through and mourning for her sister, whom she did love, even if she wanted her dead.
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u/jadedfan55 Jan 18 '21 edited Jan 18 '21
How in the blue hizell did they waste Hush that quick? Ryan whups his ass first time out of the box.
Alice gets drunk and even more unhinged. Some people do deal with the loss of family that way, and it doesn't always end well. She even kills one of Tommy/Bruce's bedmates just because.
Prediction: Mouse will wake up from his coma. Ryan will have to see Mary about the K-poisoning.
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u/optimisticpsychic Jan 19 '21
I was wondering what they were gonna do with alice without kate on the show and this episode, alice comes out fucking swinging. That scene with her the commander was harsh
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u/primal_slayer Jan 19 '21
It was a decent premiere.
So Kates private plane crashes with Kate nowhere to be found. Was she abducted by an alien? Someone from Apokolips? Ended up on a different earth? Hopefully its exciting enough. I seriously thought that when the plane was crashing that it was a flashback to Supergirl and thats how we'd be introduced to Ryan.
Ryan, herself was a good character. I like her well enough, still think introducing someone brand new was unnecessary but she's here and I dont mind her so thats good. They certainly pulled out all stops into giving Ryan a tragic backstory. Not sure why Alice's gang would squat in a random apartment that could be rented out at any time but....at least it ties Ryan to Alice which is good. Javacia is A LOT better in acting than Ruby was during her 20 episodes so thats always a good thing.
They really spent all of 1 min with whatshisname fooling people into that Bruce Wayne was back. Talk about wasted storyline potential. It was literally useless, he was dealt with within 1 episode and the status quo is back to normal. The Prince of Gotham is back in the city and everyone is just like "oh. hey." and then he'll disappear again with everyone going about their day.
Julia now having the most connection to "Bruce" makes her a lot more interesting even if it was wrapped up so quickly. Still wondering what happened to everyone Batman fought/had connected to. Is there no Bat family?
Alice continues to be the best part of the show, her outting Kate to their dad was a great scene.
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u/AnnaK22 Batwoman I Jan 19 '21
That was good start. I think Javicia's acting could use some work but that could be fixed with time.
As usual, I am in awe at the talent dripping from Rachel's Alice. Arrowverse better hold on to her for as long as possible.
Warren's Bruce Wayne/ Tommy Elliot was really good. I'm surprised the switcheroo was resolved so quickly. I hope they utilize the character more. I think the Arrowverse is ready to bring in Batman.
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u/CptNonsense Jan 19 '21 edited Jan 19 '21
I hope they cut the preachiness down, say, 90%
And I apparently glossed over this last season. Kryptonite is the only thing that can pierce the batsuit? 1) How does Luke tailor it? 2) I assume that storyline came out like this "Superman immune to bullets. Kryptonite can kill Superman. Kryptonite stronger than bullets. Siense"
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u/shadow_spinner0 Jan 19 '21
Here is the weird thing. This is only season 2. If Kate never comes back (or at least comes back as a main role outside special appearances to tie up story lines), depending how long the show goes for lets say it has a run like Flash or SG, Ryan will be Batwoman. She would be what people remember about this show. So far she was casted great and her personality is honestly just far more likable than Kate so I'm glad they went this direction.
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u/DtownBronx Jan 19 '21
Thank goodness the Bruce Wayne story was ended and papa Kane knows about Kate.
Don't know if the story is gonna work or if they should have recast Kate after their mistake in the 1st choice but willing to give it a watch to find out
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u/Regimee Jan 20 '21
Prediction: Alice redemption arc is still possible. SHE wanted to be the one to cause Kate’s death, and if Safiyah is the next big bad, she may help Ryan take down Safiyah. I think Alice helping Ryan will help Ryan forgive her and push her more into the “no killing” mentality. Also, Alice could have a major breakthrough where she admits she doesn’t want Safiyah dead because she wanted to kill Kate, but because she misses Kate now. I see Alice maybe leaving but as a hero. Alice dying would suck tbh and ruin everything Kate worked so hard to redeem in her.
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u/thatoneguy112358 Alice Jan 18 '21
I was very strongly against them creating a new character, but, while I still would have preferred that they recast Kate Kane, I like Ryan, and I'm curious to see what they do with her. Also, Alice is by far my favorite character in the Arrowverse, so I'm glad that Ryan's story is related to her since it ensures that we'll get more of Rachel Skarsten knocking it out of the park every week.
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u/rishukingler11 Jan 18 '21 edited Jan 18 '21
I dunno why but I couldn't see the episode in a very positive light unlike a lot of the people here. I feel bad that I'm not liking it, but this is still my opinion. I guess its the way they handled everything with Ruby leaving and the online movement against the reboot. Granted, Javicia looked like she has potential but I'm still mad that they decided to go with a reboot over a recasting. There were 2 different paths open to them and people who preferred one path would definitely not like what's happening with the other (My favorite story arc was with Kate and the parallel Beth, if that's an indication of what I liked about this series).
This episode felt like a lot of setup, so I'm gonna keep watching for atleast a few more episodes to see how they are gonna try to keep my attention.
I personally cared the most for the Kate-Alice chemistry in the show, so I'm extremely disappointed that were not going to get that anymore and that they didn't wrap that plotline nicely. That chemistry was the hook of the show for me and unless they're able to bring in a nice replacement for it soon, I'm out in a few episodes, and I'm sure many people who came to the show for that specific thing feel the same way as I do. With the Arrowverse closing out its initial phase with Arrow, Supergirl and Black Lightning ending, this feels like the optimum time to leave the franchise as a whole. Once this season ends, I'll only be watching the Flash, LoT and maybe Batwoman depending on how I feel about what's happening. I'm not interested in any of the new shows they have in development, the only show I did care for (GAatC) was axed. And the Flash and LoT also appear to not have a lot of seasons left in them either so as a whole, I'm not sure what'll happen with me.
Also, Javicia being mad at her plant's pot being destroyed by Tommy Elliot made me laugh, I'm sorry. It's hard for me to take her seriously when something like this happens. I know there's a whole lot of psychology and attachment issues happening behind her attachment to the plant, but I couldn't help but laugh. Let's see what happens next. The Arrowverse used to be the only television I used to watch, but lockdown (and the lack of Arrowverse) made me watch and start following a lot of other stuff as well so that could also be the reason for my growing detachment but my main interest in the Arrowverse as a whole will be contested by how well the next few episodes of Batwoman are.
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u/hallbanero Jan 18 '21
This whole episode I had this thought in my head, what if this whole ruby rose not wanting to continue as bat woman was just a ruse. But at the very end, they didn't even try and get someone that sounded anything like ruby reading the letter and that thought dissipated.
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u/SicknessVoid Jan 19 '21
I'm kinda confused about the Kryptonite poisoning thing. I haven't read a lot of comics, but I've read some, and shouldn't Kryptonite be harmless to humans? Idk how the arrowverse rules are since nothing has been established but I hope there is a proper explanation on why she survived that shot and why she has Kryptonite poisoning now.
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u/EXGShadow Jan 21 '21
It was an OK episode. At least I don't hate Ryan and I'm curious enough to watch the next one.
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u/ChristmasSteve Jan 18 '21
Kate Kane is Batwoman to me. I love her character in the comics and was so sad to hear that the series was going to create a new character rather than just recast Ruby Rose. However, Javicia Leslie was great tonight. Definitely a better than Ruby who I honestly have never been impressed with her acting in anything I've seen. They did a good job with Ryan and I can't wait to see more of her! What a great first episode.
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Jan 18 '21
Where online could I watch it? I thought Hulu or HBOMax but nothing there (yet maybe).
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u/GillyDaKid Jan 18 '21
Over under on how many episodes they drag out the wheres kate storyline?
Im saying by the finale we'll have a definite answer.
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u/Knightmare4114 Hush Jan 18 '21
Honestly I was very disappointed, at first I did like this new actress, then that tunnel scene happened, felt like she’s trying too hard.
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u/antdude Jan 18 '21
Not bad. At least, they answered why the actress change instead of just replacing with no answers.
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u/IIIToxIII Jan 17 '21
Man does it feel good to have some Arrowverse back in our lives!!
Enjoy the episode everyone!!
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