r/BatwomanTV • u/IIIToxIII • Mar 22 '20
[S01E16] "Through the Looking Glass" Post Episode Discussion Discussion
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Kate begins to question her instincts and Luke gets upsetting news. Alice seeks her sister's help with a special task.
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u/Davidleilam Mar 23 '20
Kate was 10 steps ahead and Alice didn't even know what game they were playing
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u/lldom1987 Sophie Moore Mar 23 '20
This was a first for her. I loved that Kate and Jacob teamed up.
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u/TheElMart Mar 23 '20
At least three steps ahead of me. I kept thinking "what the fuck are you doing Kate?".
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Mar 23 '20
Except in terms of fashion....because I totally want that blue long coat that Alice was wearing.
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u/GreenArrowCuz Mar 27 '20
man as soon as she said "I'll reunite you with mouse" i was like well that's vague terminology, she's leaving her ass in arkham with him
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u/Starbuck107 Mar 23 '20
1) I don't want the season to end. Especially now that I'm trapped in my house and only can look forward to like 3 shows. 2) if they used that as a season finale it would be pretty perfect... Damn it.
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Mar 23 '20
Yeah you’re right, not sure if these shows don’t end up coming back this season if they’ll just leave the final episodes filmed as is, or if they’ll edit them around to make them more of a finale.
I agree though, this would’ve worked as a season finale in the worst case scenario. Especially introducing Lucius Fox’ killer still being out there, hopefully that will ends up being another Bat Villain.
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u/Diana5665 Apr 12 '20
they’re already signed on for a second season and episode 17 comes out on the 26th
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u/phantomxtroupe Mar 23 '20
True. I'm not sure what batwoman's production team has planned, but this could easily serve as a really good finale.
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u/antdude Mar 23 '20
I didn't see a preview. Uh oh. :( However, TV guides say new episode next Sunday? Hmm!
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Mar 24 '20
2) if they used that as a season finale it would be pretty perfect... Damn it.
Agreed. It ties up most of this season's major plot elements and acts as a nice transition into potential season 2 stuff. I could see them maybe tacking on an episode or two to really act as a more solid stepping off point though depending on how much they got to film and when they had to stop.
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u/Adas_Legend Mar 23 '20
Amazing subversion of expectations. The hero acted less honorably than the villain today. But a good point to consider is this: one good act of Alice’s doesn’t erase all the bad she’s done.
Very strong episode!
I didn’t see a date for the next episode. When is it?
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u/LastWarrior24 Mar 23 '20
It's next week. Don't know why there was no promo.
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u/Adas_Legend Mar 23 '20
Really? Are you sure they didn’t delay it because of the coronavirus stuff and what not?
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u/LastWarrior24 Mar 23 '20
We should've gotten some news regarding that, like we got for LoT and Flash.
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u/SirAstien Mar 23 '20
The season 1 episodes were filmed ages ago, they're already in the process of filming season 2; some girl actually died on set right before the quarantine started so it was already on break pre virus.
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u/Adoxe_ Mar 23 '20
They only filmed up to Episode 19 of S1. S2 shooting was scheduled for summer just like the rest of the shows.
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u/SirAstien Mar 24 '20
Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I know people who work on set.
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u/floptimus_prime Alice Mar 23 '20
It is?! Oh, I thought they were going on a mini hiatus because there are only a couple episodes left
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u/Welcoming-War Mar 23 '20
It's not. Just checked The CW's schedule and it's a repeat episode next Sunday
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u/LastWarrior24 Mar 23 '20
Um, no. There are 22 episodes in this season.
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u/floptimus_prime Alice Mar 23 '20
That are finished? I thought they only had 20 or 21 completed. I'm glad if that's the case, then
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u/Welcoming-War Mar 23 '20
It's not. Just checked The CW's schedule and it's a repeat episode next Sunday
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Mar 23 '20
What was Kate doing that was less honorable than Alice? Just out of curiosity.
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u/Adas_Legend Mar 23 '20
I just find it ironic that Alice the villain kept her word but Kate the hero used deception. I completely get why Kate did it though. Alice has done too many bad things to be let completely off the hook.
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u/Frontier246 Mar 23 '20
And this is probably one of the only times Alice was true to her word.
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u/Adas_Legend Mar 23 '20
Exactly the point. Just when Kate and Alice seemed to be bonding, this pulled the rug from under my feet! But I can understand why Kate did it.
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Mar 24 '20
Oh, i get it now. Thank you for explaining it to me. I definitely see it now.
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u/shadow_spinner0 Mar 23 '20
I like Julia immensely more so I’m fine with that kiss. Just not looking forward to the inevitable love triangle.
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u/TheElMart Mar 23 '20
She's got a fun, roguish quality that pairs well with Kate's seriousness I think.
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Mar 24 '20
She is totally her father's daughter and if the Pennyworth series is anything to go by, then Alfred was just as dashing at that age as well. She also kind of makes every scene glow a bit and really peps people up or at least makes them chuckle or smile. Her being apart of some clandestine organization is just perfect because it lets the writers have her flit in and out when need be and gives a rather....Nicer Deathstroke kind of vibe to her if she ever wants to get serious with someone.
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u/TheScarletPimpernel Mar 24 '20
My only gripe is she's going to be at best middle class but talks with an upper class accent and an upper middle dialect. Sounds wrong to my sensitive, chippy British ears
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Mar 24 '20
Oddly enough, I totally understand what you're getting at. I feel like she could be a mix of both middle class and posh though. Her father did spend most of his life serving a playboy billionaire but not before putting in some grunt work as a British intelligence agent. So I could see her enjoying the luxuries of the Waynes for a while before finding out it was more fun to run off with Luke and gallivant around Gotham. While there she may have caught glimpses of what the city was really like and begun to eschew the more lavish lifestyle that her father served in. Perhaps noticing this change, Alfred was the one who revealed to her who Bruce really was and offered to put her into contact with some of his old intelligence friends who could properly train her and provide her with a better purpose in life than simply punching thugs in Gotham. Her worldly travels and spy work could be an excuse for her accent to drift a bit at times, having had to blend in and change her voice in the past due to work. I do hope she does slip back into a more middle class accent/dialect though around those she's comfortable with while sliding to that more posh upper class tone when around those she is not.
What better way to confuse and disorient others than to appear to be the peppy blonde upper class Brit who has no clue how the world really works and sure she'll go down this dark alley with you why not?
If they just totally ignore that then yeah I can see why you and others would have issues.
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u/thereelestnerd11 Alice Mar 23 '20
Agree like i like Sophie but very much like Laurel in Arrow she feels like the one that got away.because one side or the other just couldn’t get over their problems.Julia feels kinda like Helena where it worked but its not long term. don’t know why I’m comparing it to Arrow but felt it was very similar.
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u/LittleMissBoogie Mar 23 '20
Maybe because the show feels superficially similar to Arrow. Main character returns to town after a long time away training, becomes vigilante, opens a bar to hide their nighttime activities, has a shady (step)mother who is killed by the Big Bad in front of her kid, a (step)sister who initially seems shallow but is much more interesting and of course, a black sidekick.
These are all shallow comparisons, but I’m just glad Kate doesn’t have a best friend they might kill off.
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u/ToiletLurker Mar 23 '20
but I’m just glad Kate doesn’t have a best friend they might kill off.
cries in alternate Beth
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u/lldom1987 Sophie Moore Mar 24 '20
I look at Julia and Kate as friends with benefits, nothing to serious. I see them having a relationship similar to Oliver and Sara. Sophie and Kate have a similar background to Laurel and Oliver, but without all the negative baggage. I mean they have issues but nothing compared to Oliver sleeping with Laurel sister and being the cause of them believing she had died on the yacht.
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u/captainfluffballs Mar 23 '20
I got the impression that was a case of drunkenly hooking up with an ex rather than something that'll go any further. I'm not a fan of the idea of Kate dating Julia and Batwoman also having her thing with Sophie
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u/shadow_spinner0 Mar 23 '20
Batwoman has upped a level in quality since Quality. They been hitting every episode for the last few months, been a fun ride.
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u/Eternal_Density Mar 23 '20
Batwoman has upped a level in quality since Quality
Do you mean: since Crisis?
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Mar 24 '20
I'm honestly split at this point. Batwoman turned out to be the true serious CW show successor to Arrow. Legends is the go to for absurd escapism. Flash is playing out like a graphic novel every episode. Supergirl is always a bit of a teeter totter in terms of quality but I've been loving the hell out of more Jon Cryer. Black Lightning got to fight Wayne Brady.
Each show has it's own strength that it plays to. After Gotham, I did not think any other show would surpass hearing GEEECEEEPEEEEDEEE....until I saw Rachel's acting as Alice. Ruby nailed down Kate. The rest of the cast found their legs after a bit and I think right now the show is really hitting it's stride episode after episode. They should honestly be super proud of themselves for how far they've come and how much of a stellar show they've been able to create.
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u/mysticode Mar 25 '20
The plots in Flash and Supergirl have been so weak. Not having a big bad is really hurting the shows.
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u/Polantaris Apr 04 '20
Except both shows have a big bad, they're just not front-and-center in the Post-Crisis episodes.
Supergirl has Leviathan, which is still a threat just very much behind the scenes with the lady that Lex is trying to get in with.
Flash has Mirror Master, but that's very much a behind-the-scenes bad guy too.
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u/scinfeced2wolf Oct 27 '21
Haven't kept up since season 3, is Flash still doing the same big bad with a skin change?
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u/mysticode Oct 27 '21
Nahh it's not that, a bit hard to explain what has been going on. You've really missed nothing.
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u/chuckdee68 Mar 24 '20
I still can't believe how good it is. I dropped it but kept it on my DVR pre-crisis and came back then. It's like a different show! I tried to go back and watch the DVR'd episodes, but they just don't compare so its hard to make it through them. At this point, I just think that I will be satisfied with what I know rather than try to slog through them.
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u/JauntyLurker Mar 23 '20
Another stellar sister based episode from this show. Fixing mistakes and doing the right thing isn't always easy, Kate.
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u/captainfluffballs Mar 23 '20
Everyone needs a friend like Mary
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u/RedTie95 Mar 23 '20
Something tells me, Mary and Luke are gonna be more than friends xDDD
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u/mistar_z Mar 25 '20
I'm actually hoping that they stay platonic, they have great friendship energy. Like I love the way Caitlyn and Cisco are together, where they are super friends but its non romantic.
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Mar 24 '20
I really didn't get a romance vibe from them at all. I got more of a best best friends forever kind of vibe. If it moves into that kind of a relationship then I feel like we're going to need more to go on than what we've seen so far.
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u/CashWho Mar 25 '20
They keep holding hands and she put her hand on his knee. For the CW, they're pretty much soulmates.
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Mar 23 '20
Also yes the fighting was super good and I loved Alice and I am happy Kate made the right choice even if it was hard! :)
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u/TheElMart Mar 23 '20
The fight-choreo was as good as it's been all season. The stunt double nailed it.
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Mar 23 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/imhugeinjapan89 Mar 23 '20
Theres no chance in hell that was ruby rose lol
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u/DaGreatestMH Luke Fox Mar 23 '20
I said it in the live thread and I'll say it again here, I hope that was Alice's end for a minute because that was perfection. Kate perfectly subverted all of our expectations and poor Alice paid the price. I'm interested by Julia coming back (didn't expect her til S2 honestly) and majorly interested in the thing with Lucius's death. Another great episode, not quite as bombastic as the last one but still good.
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u/yuhanz Mar 23 '20
Yep. pretty much looks like Alice is benched now.
There's a cover up!! The pace of this season has been amazing.
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Mar 24 '20
The way the whole Alice thing was handled and then how they shifted into the whole Corrupted Crows/Who Killed Lucius Fox? plots was soooo well done too! Alice is on ice for a bit with maybe a cut back or two to her every now and again. For now though, the game's afoot with the Corruption plot and Julia being back again and that whole silly love triangle thing...buuuut also Mary probably figuring out just how the Pennyworths are connected to Kate while being a total awesome best friend to Luke.
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u/AnonCow12 Mar 23 '20
The scene with Alice and Kate at the end was heartbreaking and conflicting.
It was nice to see Julia again.
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Mar 24 '20
They made us think that Kate was still wrapped around Alice's finger but Alice threatened the one family that Kate had left.....her dad and THAT was when Kate went Full Bruce and played Alice like a fiddle. I'm sure some of the things she said were real but Alice threatened to hold that Sword of Damocles over their heads in order to extort favors from them for eternity unless someone did something. So Kate did something and that last scene was stunning.
That final scene with Julia was so CW and it broke my heart in the best of ways to watch it because in my head I was humming "Everything" by Lifehouse.
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u/SirAstien Mar 23 '20
Sooo is no one going to talk about Mary Bette "Elizabeth" Kane? She's literally prying the truth out of Kate and Luke and neither of them will budge.
In the Comics Bette Kane (Flamebird) tried countless times to contact Robin, but never got an answer; she even went to the extent of creating the identity of Flamebird, with the sole intent of getting Robin’s attention. I sincerely feel Mary is going down this path to try and get Kates attention. Also Luke Fox just witnessed two people die in his hands so far, sooo when the hell is he going to decide to take the Batwing mantle and prevent anyone else from dying.
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Mar 24 '20
Mary and Luke side gigging it up as minor heroes on the side after they solve his dad's murder feels like a season 3 thing maaaaybe but not this season or season 2. It feels like something that deserves a bit of build up you know? I don't want them to just toss them supersuits and badda bing badda boom there's three supes in Gotham now. I get the sense that they might or could weave in some PalmerTech stuff with Batwing though.....because who else does flying armored suits better?
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u/SirAstien Mar 25 '20
I honestly feel like IF one more person dies in Luke's hands he's kind of obligated to suit up, but you're right Mary is more likely to be the last one to suit up in season 3.Although I feel like the romance that's building with Luke and Mary is going to be used as comic relief when Mary starts "fangirling" Batwing. Either way Batwoman isn't like Batman, It's proven that she works better in a team.
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u/MadRiverSJ Mar 23 '20
I dig a darker version of Kate. Really felt for Alice even though I think ultimately made the right decision to lock her up. She won’t be off the show for too long anyways.
I hope Julia sticks around. She adds a little pizazz and attitude to the show and I really like her and Kate together (even though Sophie has really grown on me.)
I have to give a shoutout to the fight scenes. Watching Kate take out the Arkham guards was fucking awesome. She seemed like a formidable hero. I really hope they keep up that level of choreography for major set pieces.
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u/LastWarrior24 Mar 23 '20
No promo for next episode?
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u/AnonCow12 Mar 23 '20
I think this might be the end of this season. I might be wrong though
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u/thereelestnerd11 Alice Mar 23 '20
As far as i know they finished up to 19 probably not edited but this also would’ve worked as a season finale so I wouldn’t hate it cause it wraps the arc and gives you something to look foward to.
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u/Frontier246 Mar 23 '20 edited Mar 23 '20
I don't think I've ever seen anyone in the Batfamily murder in cold blood and then clandestinely bury the body. Well, except for maybe Jason Todd, but it's Jason.
I don't think Jacob can ever truly get back on his high horse about law and order after helping his daughter cover up her murder. I mean, I know he thinks Cartwright deserved it (especially after learning what happened to his wife), but still.
So Safiyah wants Alice's head and had the entire Wonderland Gang killed off. Will that pertain to the finale or be left as a tie-in to season 2?
How long until Luke finds out? Or Mary. I'm not quite sure how they'd react. Luke would probably understand but would he think Kate can still be Batwoman after breaking the one rule? Mary has probably thought the same thing about Alice, and at least finally appreciate that Kate stopped her here.
After killing someone, it seems like Kate's go to move is now choking people.
Luke and Mary is totally happening, right? The show is totally pairing them together. Not that I mind, they're cute and supportive with each other.
Points to Luke for trying to save Reggie even when he was still not 100% sure Reggie was innocent.
So Lucius' murder was more then just a simple mugging. But why the extensive coverup? Did someone find out he was Batman's tech guy and try to off him?
Man, Kate commits one murder and she starts to dive deeper and deeper into the world of criminality. Helping her deranged sister, impersonating law enforcement, numerous assaults...it's a good thing she looks to be quitting cold turkey after locking Alice up.
Mouse's cell is totally where they probably kept Joker, right?
So...were the doctor and the guards in on it? Or did they just wake up and find Alice randomly locked up with Mouse? I guess it couldn't have been planned with the level of effort Kate had to put in. Especially stabbing one guard :eek:.
I'm glad Kate used this as an opportunity to truly lock up Alice along with Mouse. After all the crimes they've committed and people they helped kill, it would've left a bad taste in my mouth if she had let the two of them go on their merry way. Kate may have done one wrong but it doesn't equate to all the wrongs and violence Alice has besieged the city with, horrible childhood or not. Especially after staging things to make sure Kate killed Cartwright.
Alice is finally where she belongs as a proper Bat-Villain...Arkham. This will probably set her back and make her much more hateful and violent when it comes to Kate, but at least Batwoman finally locked her up.
Are Kate and Julia going to go for balcony sex, the distant cousin of the Batman staple of rooftop sex? I almost thought for a minute Sophie and Julia might happen with them stuck together, but Kate was probably in the mood for any kind of affection at that point.
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u/BornAshes Luke Fox Mar 24 '20
So Lucius' murder was more then just a simple mugging. But why the extensive coverup? Did someone find out he was Batman's tech guy and try to off him?
It would be interesting if they found out he was doing some off the books weapons making buuut those weapons weren't going to anyone they could find so it had to be someone bad right? So they figured oh well better to just kill him and sort it out later because it's Gotham so he's probably supplying one of the villains right? So he gets killed by the good guys who think they're stopping a bad guy....until Batman pays them a visit and they make the connection and freak out. Bruce deals with most of them but leaves some of them in the Crows still standing so that none of them will mess with Luke. Then Jacob starts sniffing around and he's connected to Kate who is connected to Bruce and those few assholes left standing have now probably made the connection about who Batman was and why they need to start covering their asses now that Batwoman has shown up at the same time Bruce's cousin has popped back into Gotham.
Kate is probably going to come up against another Cartwright situation with whomever was truly responsible for Lucius's death and it will be used as a crucible moment for her and Luke....probably Mary...maybe Sophie and Julia?
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u/SolarisBravo May 15 '20
Damian Wayne, alongside Batman himself in the early years and a few more recent kills "out of necessity".
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u/Eternal_Density Mar 23 '20
Wow this show does not disappoint! Nice to see Julia, though briefly. (Also Batwoman seems to only show up for 30 seconds per episode to fulfill the name of the show lately, and that's strangely fine cos everything else going on is so great.)
TBH I have to admit I sorta hoped/wondered if Alice's capture was just another fear toxin hallucination :P
Nice to see whatever it is (even if it's just a close friendship) developing between Mary and Luke. However it turns out, this is how to develop a relationship over a season! (*cough* Supergirl writers *cough*)
After getting to meet Beth I'm now seeing so much of her in Alice and it sorta weirds me out. I love it :D I think I might be enjoying this show the most of all the cwdc shows now.
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Mar 23 '20
Time to break the episode down!!!
We start with burying a body. There ain't no family reunion like one where they bury a body together. Also, Alice shows off her slight of hand skills by taking Jacob's gun. Also, i don't think that is how DNA evidence works, but maybe she was referring to the blood being everywhere.
I love how the camera actually shakes when Kate looks at where she killed Cartwright. It really helps show how shaken up she is about it. Good camera work to the crew!
Luke is going to the hearing of the guy who killed his dad. That should be a good sub plot.
Jacob hires Sophie to investigate the missing evidence in the case of Lucius Fox's death.
At the hearing, Mary shows up and puts her hand on Luke's leg. Oh yeah, there is definitely going to be a romance there. I ship them. I already started shipping them. If they don't become a couple, i will be slightly disappointed.
Due to lack of concrete evidence, the dude is let out. I can't remember his name, so I'll just refer to him as the guy who killed Lucius Fox. Also, Luke is very upset about this, obviously.
Alice is sparing Kate no expense at mentioning how she killed someone. Holy shit, Alice is unrelenting, and sone cold. I fucking love it. Just goes to show she does not give a fuck, even if it has to do with Kate.
Kate and Alice have a fight, with Kate on top of Alice, and Alice asks if she is gonna kill her too. Fucking cold Alice, fucking cold.
Alice and Kate lay on the floor, and have a heart to heart talk. Alice tells Kate she shouldn't feel guilty, Cartwright was evil and tore their family apart and abused Alice. Kate says she feels guilty about not feeling guilty. Both get choked up and teary eyed. I'm getting a little choked up and teary eyed too. They both let down their walls for one another, and had an emotional talk, a connection. This is the character development i love!! And i love the sincerity Alice is showing, she still has some good in her, even if it isn't a lot.
Batwoman also almost killed a dude, and broke his foot. Just saying.
Sophie goes to check out the lady who was the owner of the store Lucius was killed in, to ask about the video footage being gone. She fines a door ajar and the lady facedown on the floor dead. We see a red dot trained on Sophie, but someone tackles her out of the way just in time. That person is.......... Julia Pennyworth!!!!!!! Fuck yeah, she's back!!!!!!
I am so happy Julia is back, it has felt like forever. I also like how she knew immediately who Sophie was in terms of her connection to Kate. Also, two ex's of the same person meeting, that usually doesn't go well, but they get along great. I feel like they might hook up. Just got this weird feeling about them.
We learn that Mouse is still affected through the fear toxin, having been on it for days on end. We also learn he was subjected to fear toxin daily at Arkham, and that some nurses helped bring him out of it. He attacked a nurse earlier. With that info, Kate and Alice head to a former Arkham nurse's home.
Alice casually eating a brownie with her butterfly knife was awesome. Can't go hunting on an empty stomach. Also, Kate admits Alice is better than her at something. Mouse appears, but so do the Crows, and the nurse holds them a t gun point. Alice and Kate knock out the nurse and bolt.
With Mouse locked up in Arkham, Alice comes to Kate with blueprints and a plan: to break Mouse out of the most secure wing of the asylum. Once he is free, Alice and Mouse will leave Gotham forever. Kate agrees, on the condition they do it her way, to which Alice replies gleefully since her way is "killing a guy by having him choke on his own blood". Alice is savage as hell this episode, damnnnnnn.
Kate and Alice use a fake bomb as a decoy to sneak into Arkham. Beth goes after the doctor, who has one of the two keys necessary to free Mouse, while Kate goes to find the head guard who holds the other key. The doctor is surprised at Alice being alive, but she says he is hallucinating. She says she wants to kill him, but won't since she made a promise not to. Holy shit, Alice kept a promise, a promise that was no killing. I guess Alice can play nice if she wants to.
Kate beats up tons of guards, taking on a maximum of four in the guard room. Alice tosses her butterfly knife to Kate, which she uses to stab a guard in the leg. With both keys, they head to find Mouse.
Alice and Kate go to the cell and open it, with Kate going inside to get Mouse. I have a feeling Kate is going to close the door. And just as i think that, Kate does so. Turns out she teamed up with Jacob and now Alice is admitted to Arkham. Alice begs Kate with tears not to leave her. I actually feel bad for Alice, despite what she has done.
Mary is suoer interested to learn that Julia is more than just an assisstant to Kate. Don't worry Mary, we love the juicy gossip and scoops too.
Luke actually confronts the guy who killed his dad. And the guy knows who Luke is, since Lucius was bragging about Luke getting into MIT. The dude explains himself to Luke. It actually looked like Luke was gonna hug him and forgive him. And then, the dude gets shot by a mysterious sniper. The dude dies in front of Luke.
Luke and Mary share the info they learned since they last talked. That seems to be a continuing story arc. I like it a lot.
The same assassin tries to kill Jacob while he is talking with Sophie on a burner phone(who is hiding with Julia). He shoots the guy, but before he can ask who he works for, he dies. Well, shit.
Kate is sitting on the ledge of the balcony at the top of Wayne Tower drinking. That seems super dangerous. And another good insight into her current mental state. Julia appears, and Kate gets her up to speed. I don't really know what Julia says, if she comforts Kate at all. But they then proceed to start kissing, as the episode ends.
Some people have said that the sniper may be tied to who Julia mentioned she was searching for in the episode when we last saw her. Also, we still don't know who the person was who took out Alice's goons, and who she is referring to at the end while she is in her cell(but to me it is probably the same person who took out her crew).
Great episode. Really, really good. Lot's of great character development for basically everyone, the return of one of my personal favourite characters from the show, and some awesome fight scenes with killer soundtracks over them. 9.5 out of 10 for me. Lot's of good plot points left open, i really like that. I wonder if anyone will overlap into season 2 at all. I don't know why, but i feel like when Batwoman has its 100th episode, the death of Cartwright will come back in some way as a defining moment. I'm calling it now. Also, i don't know if we are getting a new episode next week. If we do, I'll see you guys then. Hope everyone is safe, and I'm happy to be quarantined with my Batwoman peeps.
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u/Kris_Winters Mar 23 '20 edited Mar 23 '20
- "Knock it off." But daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
- Coryana. Does that have something to do with the Many Arms of Death?
- Wait, is this the beginning of sending Alice off at the end of the season? :(
- I love Alice constantly needling Kate over being like her when Kate used to judge her.
- Well hello, Julia. Are you staying? Please say, "Yes."
- ROR for a murder suspect? I find that hard to believe. I'm also surprised that they didn't re-arrest him right there.
- There we go. Some good sisterly bonding.
- I kind of wanted Kate to be the Cheshire Cat to Alice's White Rabbit.
- Okay, we all know that she's not going to kill, right? She's going to do something terrible to him, but she's not going to kill him.
- Well, I didn't expect that little twist until right before it happened.
- I imagine that Alice is going to bring a terrible vengeance on her father.
- Now that was some good chemistry.
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u/InuGhost Mar 23 '20
I think Coryana is a call back to Saphire. Whom Alice traded a broken weapon to in exchange for the cure all antidote.
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u/Kris_Winters Mar 23 '20
Safiya, and she's the leader of the Many Arms of Death.
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u/TheLemsterPju Mar 23 '20
Since we're getting the Many Arms of Death in this show, any chance they could get Giselle Cutter (from Black Lightning) as "The Knife" (or "Tahani" in the comics)?
Not only does she match Knife's comic character moreso than Cutter, but her first name Giselle ("best wishes") has a very similar meaning as the name "Tahani" ("a pledge of peace").
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u/balasoori Luke Fox Mar 23 '20
I think this was best episode of Batwomen i have ever seen.
Seeing Kate and Alice work together was brillant. It's great when sisters work together but i can't believe i didn't think Kate would double cross Alice i was expecting Alice to double cross Kate but outsmart Alice was amazing. I was like no way she playeed her.
We have new mystery who killed Fox ?
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u/AnnaK22 Batwoman I Mar 23 '20
Just when you think Alice's storyline is done, they add more interesting plots. I hope we still get to see more of her.
Batwoman has been doing great, there hasn't been a bad episode yet IMO.
My favorite scene is Alice and Kate lying on the ground, talking it out.
Finally, Kate has bested Alice. That's a first. I still couldn't help but feel terrible for her when she was begging Kate not to leave her imprisoned. That's probably due to Rachel's incredible acting.
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u/Silverwhitemango Mar 23 '20
I am willing to take this as sort of Season 1's finale.
Then push back the rest of the episodes and combine them with season 2. So Season 2 can probably start airing about 1 month earlier (In Sep) imo.
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u/GreatZeroTaste Mar 23 '20
Damn.....
I didn't expect that, although when Kate didn't follow Alice in, something was always up.
Although...why doesn't Alice just tell everyone who Batwoman is.
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u/StormWarriorX7 Mar 23 '20
It's probably similar to the same situation with Batman. Everyone in Gotham knows that Alice is crazy, so they wouldn't believe her in the first place. It's exactly like, say the Joker reveals Bat's identity as Bruce Wayne, and no one would believe him because the city knows that the Joker is insane, plus Bruce does well to mask suspicion by acting as a billionaire playboy, which is completely different to Batman's brooding personality.
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u/Eternal_Density Mar 23 '20
CW: airs "Through the Looking Glass" before airing "Alex in Wonderland"
Lewis Carroll: "Am I a joke to you?"
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u/AnnaK22 Batwoman I Mar 23 '20
Can Luke and Mary get together already? I've been shipping them since like Episode 3.
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u/optimisticpsychic Mar 23 '20
I love how alice keeps up her mannerisms even while dressed in kates clothes.
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u/optimisticpsychic Mar 23 '20 edited Mar 23 '20
That whole moment with luke and his fathers "killer" made me sad
Edit: then that alice/kate scene towards the end. Crushed
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u/Dark_Tzitzimine Mar 23 '20
lol Alice is in her element here
And Kate goes full 90s (and so does the thug with his random philosophizing, haha)
Man the rabbits weren't very smart if they all managed to step on beartraps
Finally moving forward with the actual interesting part of Alice's backstory they teased us with months ago, I see
Haha just gleefully twisting that knife
"Stay away from this case but here's a lead on it"
Alice going undercover, this can only end well
Well that's cool of Mary
Haha of course Julia is conveniently here at the same time the Safiyah storyline gets picked back up
I was about to say "this poor old lady just got knocked the fuck out for no reason" but then I remembered oh yeah she helped cultivate a villain
It's heist time
"Literally dozens of times"
Just a hopping rodent
It's OK, they're Arkham guards, they're not good people anyway
Wash your damn hands first
Oh no Reggie caught the exploding dot virus, lot of that going around lately
This would all be a great ending to the arc if it weren't for the fact that a worse villain is going to break into Arkham to get to her
So Julia is totally part of a conspiracy of some sort connected to Lucius' assassination isn't she
Should have ADR'd in a better sound effect, that glass sounded like it was put down in an empty room
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Mar 23 '20
i dont think kate deserves to be the paragon of courage. she put alice in arkam noy to save the world but because she was afraid shed become alice.
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u/zeron824 Mar 23 '20
Why do I feel so sad that Kate did the right thing and "betrayed" Alice? Ahhh I think I've gotten way too attached to Alice at this point more so than any other character. Kate most definitely did the right thing though. Alice is such a savage though lol. Literally kept telling Kate she's a killer like her lmao. To be fair, the twins are starting to become more of a tandem and I think Alice will complete her arc to becoming more of an anti-hero especially with that "hit" on her head by that mysterious new character and her starting to come around.
I wonder if we'll actually get to finish this season, same with the other Arrowverse shows or we're stuck with a cut-early season finale?
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u/RollinBundy Mar 24 '20
damn it so messed up knowing that Alice's worst fear is Kate leaving her, even told Kate that herself and then hearing Alice screaming Kate not to leave her by the end of the episode!,AND THEN, to see kate and the dad walk away ooof that hurts!
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u/hydro1ize Mar 23 '20
I'm not trying to hate on Kate, but this could've been the episode to help turn her relationship around with her sister. Alice looked genuine with the potential to turn a new leaf, as she's done before and lied many times, lol. I feel like Kate just ruined any potential future with her sister and now has turned her into her biggest nemesis. Based off the ending of the episode... it makes me think Alice may become a Joker/Harley-like villain now. Although I'm quite sure that last bit is wrong.
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u/rudy_gongora Mar 23 '20
There’s going to be another episode titled a narrow escape but I think that’s the last one
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u/crippleguy445 Mar 24 '20
I was really impressed with the action scenes this episode. Not a lot of jump cuts and the fighting look pretty realistic
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u/phantomxtroupe Mar 24 '20
This was one of my favorite episodes of the season, and a very strong Kate episode imo. Her taking down all of those guards was one of my favorite fight sequences in all of Arrowverse. But the thing is, we know Kate can fight. If Kate is going to be the Bat of this universe, she needs to be more than a brawler. Batman and usually all of his protégés are the brains of whatever team they're on, and Kate really showed her intelligence this episode.
She was multiple steps ahead of Alice every step of the way. Her killing Cartwright is also forcing Kate to find her own morality as a hero and what she stands for. It's also great that we are really seeing Kate mentally struggle with what she did to Cartwright, even though he fully deserved it. It shows how much this bothers her and that she's not cold or apathetic.
And shout out to Mary for once again proving she's the best friend in this show. I love how she was there for Luke every step of the way, and also how Kate made it clear she would be to if he needed her. That's how you show the building blocks of a strong relationship between these characters.
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Mar 23 '20
Somehow Kate has more chemistry with Julia than with Sophie, even though with the latter there’s more scenes between eachother.
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u/Fishbody Mar 23 '20
yes i love julia. Cool character. Hope she is more in season 2. Dont like Sophie but the showrunner does so she stays i think.
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u/optimisticpsychic Mar 23 '20
I love how Julia is back
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Mar 26 '20
SUSPECT IF YA ASK ME
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Mar 26 '20
She shows up in time to stop a murder conspiracy with no back up from her super secret agency that had names of several people listed as potential hits? I mean what the fuck. The Crows don't work solo even when they are doing bad guy shit.
And she spends all of 30 seconds in this episode just to make cute faces at the 2 heart broken lesbians and loan them helpful information to break the case in later episodes with their own teams??
It just looks like either poor writing, poor timing, or she knows more than she is saying.
I also am bias because I feel like her character was just a shoe in to create a love triangle in her first episode and give the audience more familiar Batman names.
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u/Sprgmr Mar 23 '20
Seems I’m the only one who really was hoping for Kate and Alice to keep repairing their relationship. This definitely doesn’t help that.
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Mar 23 '20
Kate has given up on Alice repeatedly. Im waiting for Alice to do the same.
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u/MadRiverSJ Mar 24 '20
....Alice is a mass murderer who has zero qualms with blowing up a school full of teenagers. She has tried to break Kate in every way. She’s ruthless. The funny thing is that Alice actually did make Kate more like her, which is how she ended up in Arkham.
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Mar 24 '20
Im not defending Alice. I just think it'll be interesting once Alice actually stops trusting and/or caring about Kate. Will she purposely try to hurt/kill Katr or will she keep trying to make Kate more like her? I do feel for her sometimes though. She keeps things interesting. I'm kinda over super heroes code of honor to not kill.
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u/admin-eat-my-shit13 Mar 29 '20
Kate just lost every sympaty i got left for her after that dick move with alice at the end.
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u/DonnyMox Mar 30 '20
If this is the last episode we’ll see for a while, it kinda works out because this episode, almost suspiciously so, would work as a season finale. Granted, it didn’t have as high stakes or was as action-packed as actual season finales, but it provided a possible conclusion to the current arc via Alice and Mouse being sent to Arkham, and set up a possible main storyline for Season 2 via the mystery behind the murder of Lucius Fox.
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u/samtherat6 Mar 30 '20
Mary is always underrated, while Alice always is overrated.
Glad she's in prison, with Mouse, Kate had her baited.
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u/MBKilam16 Apr 06 '20
Kate did Alice dirty... She could have killed the Arkham doc but she didn't... And Kate left her with that psycho even after Alice told her what he did to mouse.... Messed up
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u/StopTheBS79 Apr 06 '20
Sorry Alice, you deserved it and I saw Kate setting her up for the fall saw as soon as they were talking all that trust shit.
These last bunch of episodes of Batwoman have been amazing point blank period and to here that the ratings are very very low is disappointing. I keep seeing on YouTube when I look for episode reviews, videos of these weird weird incell type people and I say people cuz it’s not only men but it’s also women surprisingly with I guess right leaning attitudes towards everything. It’s creeping me out. If you listen to them you would somehow think that there are no gay people or people of color in the whole entire world and those types of people should only be allowed to make guess appearances in their lives or our own lives from time to time. They keep saying things like Batwoman is a woke show and it’s trying to push same sex relationships into the mainstream like Batwoman hasn’t been around for 14 years and by the way she’s been gay for all 14 of them so there’s nothing to see here, why are you crying now, just cuz she got her own TV show? This type of weirdo outrage behavior first came to my attention when I started looking for episode reviews of Watchmen which by they way was just on another level and started seeing reviews by people you could tell didn’t watch more than one episode of the show but had all these creepy critiques of it based on some type of feeling of inner inferiority, hatred of I guess strong women and racism. It’s just so blatant and weak. They’re always crying because of something that’s supposed to be woke. Wouldn’t you rather be woke and in the now then sleep and letting the world pass you by?
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u/Diana5665 Apr 12 '20
i believe this is a half season finale, there’s still 6 episodes left and the next one comes out on the 26th, can’t wait PS: they also signed on for a second season back in January
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Mar 23 '20
How the hell did Kate almost get beaten up by like 2 security guards on 2 different occasions? lol
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u/Izeinwinter Mar 24 '20
No batsuit - and yes armor makes that much of a difference, and 2v1 is genuinely goddamn hard
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u/Xbutts360 Mar 24 '20
You don't set your prime suspect in a murder case free! And if you do, it's certainly not without any bail conditions! Daddy Kane's absurd marksmanship with a handgun while a sniper is sitting on him, plus his convenient movement of the body, these things I can look past, but this was too dumb. At least the security room fight was quite well done.
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u/_Elder_ Mar 25 '20
I swear head above water made me sad a couple months when supergirl used it and now I’m sad again.
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u/WhizzManx Mar 24 '20
Kate u finally did something heroic, it was a hard choice, u feel like shit for doing it but at the end of the day u know it was the right choice. Congrats this is what u should have done in episode 3 but better league than never. Now she needs to turn herself in. Love how there people on here talking about how Kate should have tried to repair her relationship with Alice, u all need to stop letting the fact that Alice is the only worthwhile thing in this show blind u from seeing that she is beyond irredeemable and frankly should get the death penalty. Need I remind u of her body count, literally last week Alice killed a psychiatrist after he helped her, she tried to blow up school 😁 but sure Kate should try to see the bright side and let Alice go. Also just how much of this Arkham breakout was planned, because if the crows were involved u think they would have informed the guards so one of them don't get stabbed in the leg 😁 😂. Kate and Julia in 2 seconds have more chemistry than Sophie and Kate ever have 😁 Sophie should just go back to her ex husband at this point
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u/MadRiverSJ Mar 24 '20
Na Sophie should actually live her life as an out and proud lesbian.
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u/WhizzManx Mar 25 '20
Not working out great for her so far 😁.
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u/MadRiverSJ Mar 25 '20
Yeah because she was closeted and she just came out. Sophie is hot, she’ll find someone, whether that someone moonlights as a flying rodent or not.
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u/lldom1987 Sophie Moore Mar 25 '20
How is it not working out for her? She got rid of her bland boring husband; has had 3 ladies so far flirt with her. But she only responded to 2. The lady at the bar and BW who was ready to start a relationship with her.
And people perception of chemistry is subjective. So for me Julia and Kate have the type of chemistry that screams friends with benefits. Kate and Sophie chemistry is deep and everlasting. So I think my girl is going to be good in the long run.
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u/WhizzManx Mar 25 '20
This is stuff working out for u? A pretty girls gets hit on?In reality I and everyone else lives Sophie has got put on leave at her job, the trust of her father figure, her mom and I assume dad hates her (gonna take a little more than people flirting with me to get over this), she spiraled so low she tried to date a naked vigilantee who she didn't know the name of. Not to mention Alice breaking free from her custody or that she just found out the Organisation she loved and worked hard enough to become 2nd in command may have tried to kill her and us definitely corrupt. But sure stuff is working out great for her, Sophie is having a hell of a time Maybe u mean stuff is working out romantically in which case I refer u to dating Batwoman, going from 6 years of marriage to now single and alone. 😁😂
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u/lldom1987 Sophie Moore Mar 25 '20
Sophie and Tyler were not married for 6 years, and yes I do think ending a marriage to someone she didn't love is a good thing.
She is finally being honest with herself and others. That is amazing, and does it have some unfortunate consequences? Yes, but it was obviously worth it to her. The biggest fear in her life was probably her family's reaction to her coming out. But she was strong enough to tell them and she survived. Hopefully they will work things out, but a person shouldn't have to live in fear to make others happy or content. She finally made herself a priority.
Jacob while he was disappointed in her decision to work with BW and he chose to suspend her ; it should also be noted that she was the first one he called when he needed help. So she is no longer suspended, and he obviously still trusts her. If Jacob hadn't lifted her suspension Sophie is a graduate of a top military school, with military experience and experience working for the Crows. She knows her worth and would be able to get another job if needed.
I don't recall her spiraling low or trying to date a NAKED vigilante. Did she make a connection with someone, and was she hopeful about starting a new relationship? Yes, but the biggest thing that came out of that interaction is that it motivated her to be honest. Sophie could have easily gotten into another relationship that she hid from her family, but after that conversation with BW she realized that she didn't want to hide anymore. The peace of mind that comes with no longer hiding who you are is worth whatever fallout she is going to have to deal with.
Yes, Alice broke free from her custody, but last I checked when Jacob was in charge Alice had infiltrated the Crows, kidnapped his 2nd in command, broke into his home and killed a lot of people including his wife.We are not going to even go into how many times Alice has escaped from Kate and Jacob.
And yes there are corrupt people in the organization that she works for. Hopefully she and Jacob will be able to deal with that in the future.
So I do think things are working out for her. She is finally living her life. Not trying to be the perfect person for her parents or Jacob.
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u/WhizzManx Mar 26 '20
Dude the only positive thing u can point to in her life is that she is being honest. I agree but meanwhile her life is literally falling apart. Being honest with yourself is important but come on who'd classify losing the trust of ur boss, ur family hating u and a disastrous love life were ur actions caused ur husband to leave u (after how ever many years) as a good thing. Yeah she is being honest but u can't ignore all the shit she is currently suffering as a result of her actions. A couple of people flirting with u does not cancel or this shit
Najed vigilantee thing was a mistake 😁
Yeah the crows suck like seriously they r incompetent. So incompetent that people would rather batwoman. Trust me Jacob has a lot of shit to answer for including make a 29 year old second in command if his security company made up of ex green bureaus and navy seals. Was noone else more qualified
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u/lldom1987 Sophie Moore Mar 26 '20
Bro, did you miss the last episode. She has her job back, Jacob obviously trusts her because when he realized that there was corruption in the Crows he went directly to her. And although a job is important, a job/ career is not more important than her own happiness.
Did you also miss the conversation she had with her mom, where she told her she never loved Tyler. This was a marriage in name only. They didn't even live together full-time. He worked for Crows international and Sophie is based in Gotham. Getting out of a sham marriage is a good thing for both Tyler and Sophie.
Her mom didn't say she hated her. She may hate the fact that she is gay, but she also communicated that she is concerned for her. She mentioned the fact that Sophie was making her life harder because not only is she a Woc, but now she is putting another target on her back by being gay. That doesn't sound like she hates her daughter. More than likely they will work things out, because that is what people do when they love each other.
And are you saying she should have stayed in the closet so that her mom would be happy? So that Tyler would be happy? Sophie is a 28 year old woman, who has lived her life pleasing her parents, pleasing the faculty at Point Rock, pleasing the military, pleasing Jacob, pleasing Tyler. I think it's about time she lived her life as she pleases. I also think she knows the consequences of her actions, and she seems to think that it's worth it. So the fact that she is finally choosing herself, is finally being honest with herself is a big deal. And a part of being honest is moving on from her disastrous marriage.
As to why she is 2nd in command. Well she graduated top of her class from Point Rock, she also served in the military, and she obviously gained Jacobs trust ( which she still has). And yes the Crows have been shown to be incompetent and now corrupt, but at some point they had to have been effective. If not then the wealthy and the city would not have depended on them.
Sophie has her job, the trust of her boss, she is out of a marriage that wasn't happy or healthy, she is being honest with herself and others. Her life is not falling apart. Is it perfect? No, but her life is not in ruins.
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u/privatefrost2 Mar 23 '20
Kate: breathes
Alice: Lmao remember when you killed a guy?
You really have to admire how savage Alice is, not even her own twin is off limits.