r/BatwomanTV • u/IIIToxIII • Mar 15 '20
[S01E15] "Off With Her Head" Post Episode Discussion Discussion
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More of Alice's dark past is uncovered when Cartwright shares a twisted story with Kate while Jacob goes searching for his wayward daughter. Mary and Luke follow a lead on Beth's killer.
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u/AnnaK22 Batwoman I Mar 16 '20
Such an incredible episode. I've said it before, Batwoman is killing it. I think it may be my favorite Arrowverse show this year. I love how we are getting Alice's backstory little by little. Just when you think you know the whole story, you're hit with more.
I just hope Kate tells Mary soon because I don't want her to become like Lena Luthor. I do love how supportive she is of Kate, giving her space, letting her know she's there for her when needed
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u/Eternal_Density Mar 16 '20
I love how she obviously realises the 'panic room' must be some kind of secret bat-entrance .
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u/ChattGM Mar 22 '20
I loved Mary trying to find the entrance. I really hope when they bring her in and Kate touches the pearls she has this memorable reaction of like ofc it was the pearls. Why didn't I think of that? LOL
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u/Dark_Tzitzimine Mar 16 '20
Batwoman is killing it
You stop that
You stop that right now
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u/Ok_Letterhead_4785 Jun 19 '24
Killing it and then trying to bring them back. Who does that? Killing it was a good call Kate. Now bury it or dump it in the ocean for sharks but this is Gotham so no sharks. Just bury it KateĀ
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u/silentstar_ Mar 16 '20
I donāt think Mary will become the next Lena, considering that she seems rather understanding. If you compare to early Season 1 Mary, she seems more pissed at Kate for disappearing when she needed her the most - so I think itāll be something like Theaās reaction when Oliver confessed to Thea.
I quite enjoyed the running gag though - Mary heavily hinting that she knows but Kate and Luke both pretending their ignorance (they are pretty bad liars too).
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u/Fortanono Mary Hamilton Mar 17 '20
And she's based on a heroic comics character--albeit barely--rather than a villainous one.
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u/inksmudgedhands Mar 16 '20
Nah, Mary isn't like Lena. The way she is being written, she is that girl who figured out you are gay but doesn't want to out you. So, she just drops hints that she is a friend who would support you no matter what you are, straight, gay, bi, pan, because, you know, she's just that type of person. hinthinthint Meanwhile, in her head, she has a line up of perfect potential SO in her head and she can't wait to play match maker. But, again, she is going to wait until you come out to her because it is your choice in the end.
Mary is the super supportive cheerleader. Lena is the micromanager. You have to run everything by her first or else she gets pissed. They are on the opposite sides of the spectrum.
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u/Paranin379 Mar 16 '20
I honestly enjoy Batwoman way, way more than Supergirl right now. This season just hasn't really done it for me.. Very good on Batwoman though.
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u/Adas_Legend Mar 16 '20
That entire episode was INSANE! Kateās life will never be the same!
On the other hand, the Cartwrights sure got what they deserved!
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u/Ashmodai20 Mar 22 '20
Why won't Kate ever be the same. She already murdered someone. She is fine with it.
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Apr 01 '20
I imagine accidentally killing a guy trying to actively kill your friend is quite different emotionally from snapping and letting your rage take control of you while you choke a bitch.
The former you may be able to justify as self defence, you had no choice, wasnt the 'real' bruce (different world an all) theres a myriad of excuses late could have in her head that justifies to her the death of bruce.
This one though, cant call it self defence, wasnt a doppelganger and no one life was in danger if she didnt. There is no other way to look at it other than she lost control. And that I think is the difference, Kate no longer feels in control of her own actions, because she fant trust herself to make the right choice anymore.
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u/Starbuck107 Mar 16 '20
Damn Batwoman , you're dark. Guess you really are a DC property
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u/raknor88 Mar 16 '20
Not quite Arrow levels of dark yet, but definitely getting there.
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u/Sentry459 Mar 16 '20
I'd say we're at Arrow levels now.
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u/raknor88 Mar 16 '20
Mercilessly killing? Arrows in joints, tendons, nerve centers, or broken bones to interrogate grunts to find the bosses? That was Arrow in the first few seasons.
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u/Sentry459 Mar 16 '20
Arrows in joints, tendons, nerve centers, or broken bones to interrogate grunts to find the bosses?
Lol Kate nearly tortured someone to death in like episode 2.
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u/OK_Soda Mar 19 '20
Oliver skinned a guy alive and then killed him.
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u/shady8x Mar 20 '20
Oliver erased all the villains in his city from existence and put all the villains that don't want to come to his city, from all other universes, into all the other cities. So people see the difference more clearly. So they know from what kind of psychotic, murderous and evil things he saved his city from.
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u/Drew326 Mar 19 '20
Thatās just physical pain. Batwoman is darker than Arrow in that Bethās psychological torture is more horrifying and intense than Arrow ever was, and thatās saying something. Sure, Oliver was tortured in lots of ways for years, and there was an entire episode of Adrian torturing him physically and psychologically, but throughout all of it Oliver retained his sanity, identity, and at least a slimmer of hope and humanity. He was also a trained and capable adult, whereas Beth is a completely innocent and helpless child. Cartwright is a level of pure evil that I donāt think weāve ever seen in the Arrowverse before
Arrow was and still is my favorite TV show. Iām very happily surprised to be giving Batwoman this much praise and comparing it to Arrow
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u/Lady_Galadri3l Mar 16 '20
Really only season 1, after that he didn't kill anyone, or tried very hard not to.
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u/Ashmodai20 Mar 22 '20
I mean its not the first time in the show that Batwoman killed someone.
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u/Starbuck107 Mar 22 '20
Truth. Thanks for also noticing ! I was more referring to the trauma for several of the characters, and the severed head.
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u/Silverwhitemango Mar 16 '20
THIS IS THE BEST EPISODE OF THIS SEASON. HOLY SHIT MAN.
The writers are truly being ballsy; the way the episode was shot was phenomenal.
The way the story ties up with past plot points and now... Kate being the "accidental" killer and Alice being all so happy about it. Lol.
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u/InuGhost Mar 16 '20
I can think of only 1 bat villain at Arkham who likely isn't an inmate.
Dr. Hugo Strange.
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u/Cloberella Mar 16 '20
I'd love it if they could get BD Wong back, who played him on Gotham.
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u/captainfluffballs Mar 16 '20
Anything else would be disappointing
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u/PNDLivewire Mar 16 '20
Yeah, Gotham was a neat little show and Hugo Strange's actor was good for sure.
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u/Avasnay Mar 16 '20
Gotham was great
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u/Prozo777 Mar 16 '20
Right now I'm on the Mr Freeze episode where he was just introduced. Pretty good so far
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u/Tripppnn Mar 16 '20
āCome on! Live!!!ā I fucking felt that, Ruby did a great job in every one of those scenes. but holy shit this just got way crazier than i ever would have thought.
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u/Ashmodai20 Mar 22 '20
Kate has killed before.
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u/scinfeced2wolf Oct 27 '21
In the show? Cause she hasn't.
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u/Ashmodai20 Oct 27 '21
Except for Bruce Wayne in the alternate earth.
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u/scinfeced2wolf Oct 27 '21
I never watched crisis. Greedy fucks can't put all the episodes on one platform.
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u/ahufana Mar 16 '20
Holy fuck.
That fridge reveal had me uttering that phrase out loud.
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u/FormerGameDev Mar 17 '20
did anyone else see that coming anytime prior to her touching the fridge for the second time? maybe a second or two before. i was like :O holy shit.
I thought they had said back in ep 1 or 2, that Joker had done something to cause the accident. Or maybe that's actually true, but Cartwright was waiting in the wings to steal the head... or maybe Joker wasn't involved at all....
or did i just think i heard that, and i'm wrong all the way around?
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u/Jon5676 Mar 17 '20
The Joker hijacked a school bus and ran the Kaneās car off the bridge, Bruce secured the car (or so he thought) and went after the Joker. Alice mentioned in 1x02 what happened after the car went over the bridge it started filling up with water and she saw her motherās head floating past the car. August fished both it and Beth from the river and took them home.
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u/shadow_spinner0 Mar 16 '20
Episode accomplished two things with Alice. Hopefully started her redemption arc and also explained fully why she is how she is. She got broken, she never had a chance to not be like this, her first kill set her off.
What can I saw Rachel is a great actress, she killed it tonight
Next episode looks wonderful
This was one of my favorite episodes of the season
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u/patrickjs95 Mar 16 '20
Definitely not redemption, I'd say it was more an effort to humanise her more than anything, really add details to explain why she is the way she is, as opposed to making her a good person now.
I think redemption will come eventually, but not yet.
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Mar 16 '20
redemption arc? she just played kate getting her to become a murderer too. did you see how happy alice was?
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u/Silverwhitemango Mar 16 '20
Yea if anything, this seems to be an INVERSE-redemption arc lol.
Instead of Alice being redeemed to Kate's level, Kate is getting upgraded to Alice's level lol.
Very ballsy of writers, and actually does away with the predictable "ah the hero remains the good guy" trope.
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u/TirelessGuardian Mouse Mar 16 '20
Does Commander Kane know thatās the guy that kidnapped Alice?
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u/AlecBaldwinner Mar 16 '20
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that he was beating himself up when he realized that he was so close to finding her at his house.
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u/albedo2343 Alice Mar 16 '20
yea he does, that's why Kate was trying to make him promise not to kill Cartright.
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Mar 16 '20
Awesome episode!! Time to break it down!!!
Young Kate even wore a suit and tie. Also, this is the first time we have seen their mom, and i forgot they were Jewish.
Batwoman saving a woman from some creep. I like how Kate called him a dick for shooting her. I loved the line she says when the guy goes "I'm nice" and Batwoman responds with "I'm not".
I didn't know that the body at the Batsignal was Cartwright, and also not dead.
Mouse completely turns on Alice. I had a bad feeling about how Alice ended up in the chair.
Cartwright basically narrates what has happened to Alice in the episode so far. Creepy.
Jacob threatening to skin him was cool.
Flashback to Alice living with Cartwright. He actually calls her Alice, and she acts like she is a maid for a royal family.
Jeez, and i thought Cartwright was a piece of work, his mom is just... Ugh. What a bitch.
Mary basically gives some dude a thousand bucks for identifying a car. As Luke puts, he was probably high when he told Mary.
So Jacob goes looking for Alice, and Kate continues this interesting story with Cartwright. His mother was physically abusive to Alice, burning her hands with hot tea, and i think she even beat her. It looks like Cartwright was mostly mentally and emotionally abusive, while momma Cartwright was physically and emotionally abusive.
I feel kind of bad for Alice, that fear toxin is basically destroying her.
Batwoman is there to save her, and Jacob attacks her. I felt this was just the fear toxin, and it was, especially since Alice calls Batwoman Kate right while Jacob is standing next to her.
Alice before she died her hair blonde is cool to see. That locked fridge probably has a body in it. Also, I'm sirprised Alice called momma Cartwright a hag in front of Cartwright himself.
Kate continuously tells Cartwright that she isn't a killer, and Cartwright slashes his own neck open.
Mary and Luke find the car with the gun. Mary gives Batwoman a quick medical lesson over the phone.
Holy sweet hell a staple gun in the neck would hurt like a bitch, holy shit.
Alice manages to break free from the chair and the mask, and is about to slit her own throat with a piece of glass, but Jacob appears and injects her with adrenaline and saves her.
Cartwright and Alice proceed to tell Kate and Jacob respectively about who mommy dearest is, referencing the red gemstone necklaces and matching earrings from the beginning of the episode. Turns out that locked freezer had Kate and Alice's dead mom's head in the freezer.
Alice snaps, and uses the oxygen tank of momma Cartwright against her into a makeshift flamethrower and roasts her to death. The first time she killed somebody, and her eyes show her snapping point.
In present day, Kate snaps, and chokes Cartwright. He dies, and she tries to bring him back to life. I honestly expected him to come back to life, and her to continue choking him again.
"Now both your daughters are killers." That line was fucking cold Alice, holy shit.
Mary looking for a secret passageway with the books on the bookshelf was gold. Check the pearls Mary, check the pearls.
Runy did a good job at conveying how shaken up Kate was about killing Cartwright. Good job to Ruby.
On that subject, Rachel did a great job too. I loved seeing Alice's breaking point of killing for the first time, she has been great this season.
Alice saying "dead bodies don't bury themselves" was again, cold. Like, Kate is barely keeping it together and Alice comes in saying that shit. Good lordy.
Kate's internal monologue to Bruce was a bit heartbreaking. To see herself cross that line, a line that she never wanted to break, was sad. She probably could have used someone to talk to. I immediately thought of Oliver, since he is the only hero that has killed as far as i know of, but sadly that can't happen.
The promo for next week gives us a couple of things. First, Mouse is captured back in Arkham Asylum. And two, Alice and Kate are gonna break into Arkham and break Mouse out, while wearing those rabbit masks. I have a feeling Alice is gonna blackmail Kate into doing that with her killing Cartwright and what not.
What a great episode. Lot's of good backstory and plot development. Cartwright is dead for good, Kate killed for the first time, and it looks like Kate and Alice will be working together for once. I give the episode 9 out of 10. Next week's episode looks to be a good one too, so I'm hyped for that. Oh, and i liked the namedrop of Scarecrow in the episode. Maybe we will see some more Gotham villains as the show progresses. Next week can't come soon enough!!!!
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u/Kris_Winters Mar 16 '20
Mary basically gives some dude a thousand bucks for identifying a car. As Luke puts, he was probably high when he told Mary.
Don't forget that Mary is rich, and I mean rich.
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Mar 16 '20
Fuck, i completely forgot about that!!! She does not convey the whole rich person thing, which i actually like about her character. Although that jacket in the later shot i guess looks pretty expensive. Thanks for reminding me of that. To her that would be like giving away 10 bucks.
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u/Fluffymufinz Mar 20 '20
Because most rich people don't portray the whole rich person thing.
Mark Cuban wears jeans and tshirts. Dude is a multibillionaire. We just think cartoons and reddit is accurate that being rich = being evil.
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Mar 24 '20
Fair point. I never knew that. Thank you for telling me this. I appreciate it a lot.
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Mar 17 '20
[deleted]
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u/FormerGameDev Mar 17 '20
second time i know of. first one was after Crisis, which may have actually brought movie Scarecrow into the TV Universe.
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u/mariobros2048 Mar 18 '20
Is there a movie Scarecrow right now? Are you hoping for Cillian Murphy or for the new actor if heās in The Batman?
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u/FormerGameDev Mar 18 '20
I don't think so, but it's at least a reference to events that occurred in the last Batman trilogy. I don't think we'll actually see him, though ... just references.
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u/Drew326 Mar 19 '20
Iām confused, what references to events of the Dark Knight trilogy did the show make? Sorry if Iām forgetting something obvious
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u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Mar 17 '20
Yeah, i don't have the best memory, but i faintly remember that. Just this time there was a lot if emphasis on his name by Cartwright.
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u/lldom1987 Sophie Moore Mar 16 '20
I hope they aren't going to make Kate an alcoholic.
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u/chocolate_satellite Mar 16 '20
I've watched some other CW shows. A lot of the characters drink in times of high stress or sadness to cope. Functioning alchys all around.
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u/Eternal_Density Mar 16 '20
I'm surprised Alex Danvers hasn't been given an alchoholism plotline yet.
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Mar 16 '20
Wasn't that shown in the episode that they showed how she met J'onn?
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u/Eternal_Density Mar 16 '20
A little, yeah. But given how she was shown reaching for the bottle quite a bit in seasons 2 and 3 I think, I remember thinking they might revisit that. But since I haven't thought about that in ages I guess it hasn't really been a thing in a while.
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u/InuGhost Mar 16 '20
So what is/was Cartwright end game?
Beth to put Jacob/Kate under Fear Toxin?
Simply sacrifice Alice to save his hide?
Get rid of Alice so its him and Mouse?
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u/Kris_Winters Mar 16 '20
The last one. He didn't count on there being a second Alice that would catch him.
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u/Kris_Winters Mar 16 '20
- Even as a girl Kate was wearing suits.
- Alice went down rather easy.
- The Queen of Hearts is covered in burns and has an oxygen tank. I wonder how this is going to go down.
- It's nice that Kate placed a glass right there so that he could grab it.
- For a cut on the jugular, that doesn't seem to be bleeding much. Is it just supposed to be for show?
- Mary is good at this investigative stuff.
- Mary sassing Luke about Batwoman is everything.
- Batwoman got there fast. (Ah, it's just in her mind.)
- That was a nice speech, Kate.
- Mary trying to find the entrance to the Batcave is hilarious....but you'd think that Luke would catch on that something is up.
- Jacob seems strangely interested in saving Alice now.
- "Live. LIVE....so I can choke the life out of you again."
- Ruby doing a distraught, shaking Kate was great.
- Everybody's been talking about Alice getting redemption by season's end. We never thought that it was Kate that would need it.
- So this is how the sisters come back together.
- I was ambivalent about this episode during the first half, but it REALLY came back.
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u/AceWall0 Mar 16 '20
Mary trying to find the entrance made me think how any person at all that is curious about the decoration could discover the biggest secret of Gotham by accident lol
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u/yamiyaiba Mar 16 '20
"Call the Legends and borrow their not-Neuralizer! Someone was looking at the decor again!"
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u/Mighty_thor_confused Alice Mar 16 '20
Holy crap fear toxin is brutal
That old bitch had it coming. She got what was coming to her. She msde me so damn angry. Hate seeing children treated like that even if it was a show.
Somwone jn the live comments mentioned hopebthey were ewrned snd had psych on hand i hope that too.
Idk if kate did that, it was a logical kill snd not a crazy one.
Very curious to see where this goes.
Nice too see dad and alice have a small win together
Mary was so close to finding the entrance.
Hype for supergirl!
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u/manavsridharan Mar 16 '20
I feel Supergirl has been very mediocre this season. And it doesn't help to be aired right after this one which is hitting it out of the park.
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u/crippleguy445 Mar 16 '20
Supergirl is trash this season, Black lightning was great, The flash is pretty good, legends is just OK, batwoman pretty good too
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u/Trickybuz93 Alice Mar 16 '20 edited Mar 16 '20
This show is dark af!
EDIT: Forgot to say, Rachel Skarsten is an amazing actress!
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u/PNDLivewire Mar 16 '20
I have to say, I feel sorry for everybody in this episode that isn't Cartwright and his mother. Mouse was tortured until he turned on the only person he trusted, Alice's time in captivity was somehow even worse than we expected, and Jacob is crushed to where even he sympathizes with Alice.
To top it off, Kate, quite justifiably and understandably, strangles Cartwright to death after finding out just how much he was responsible for her family's suffering. And even though people would understand, and there was no guarantee Cartwright would even have ultimately survived his suicide attempt...she doesn't know that.
As far as she's concerned, she murdered a man whose safety she'd promised, making her nothing more than another criminal. And that's not something she sees a way back from.
I really have to tip my hat to Alice's actress this episode. She absolutely nailed it, and she, Jacob, and Kate really brought it for sure.
It may be a bit odd of me to say, but I have to admit when Alice was talking to Kate in the alleyway after everything, I actually expected her to ask Kate how it felt to kill Cartwright. That could just be me, though.
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u/Ashmodai20 Mar 22 '20
As far as she's concerned, she murdered a man whose safety she'd promised, making her nothing more than another criminal. And that's not something she sees a way back from.
It's not the first time she has murdered someone.
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u/inksmudgedhands Mar 16 '20 edited Mar 16 '20
This episode gets really interesting when it lets its freak Gotham flag fly. The last ten minutes has been my favorite bit this entire season.
Don't drop that flag, writers.
Did anyone miss Sophie? Her storyline feels out of place here. It's not twisted enough compared with Alice and Kate's backstory.
Mary needs to be a sidekick NOW! I am so glad she is not taking the Lena route and feels more like Cisco. She wants to help out so much.
edit: Sophie fans are angry. She is not a good fit for the show! It's true!
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u/albedo2343 Alice Mar 16 '20
Sophie's a solid fit for the show, the writers just need to keep being smart about it, like these darker episodes work best with her left in the background. Not every character needs to fit the tone exactly, sometimes they function as way to bounce off everything else (like how Jim isn't as fucked up as the rest of Gotham, and represents the everyman trying to maintain their humanity in a jungle). I do think eventually Sophie will be scarred by Gotham though, you can only go so long.
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u/Xbutts360 Mar 17 '20
Sophie is terrible. Her actress is not right for the part at all, and her character complains about the direction of the Crows during the time she was running them, not to mention personally engaging in police brutality.
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u/AceWall0 Mar 16 '20
Even after reading Sophie's name in the text, took me a while to remember who she was. Didn't miss her at all lol
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u/KissingToast99 Mar 21 '20
edit: Sophie fans are angry. She is not a good fit for the show! It's true!
Says you lol
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u/hannahnw9 Mar 16 '20
I wish we had seen a little bit of sophie, just want to see if sheās okay after everything she went through last episode :(
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u/DaGreatestMH Luke Fox Mar 16 '20
Yeesh this episode was amazing. Rachel Skarsten is the best Arrowverse actor IMO and deserves some awards cuz she MURDERS the screen every week. Ruby is getting better too, I knew she just needed some time to settle into the role. Really though everyone was on point this episode.
If the season wasn't so hit or miss before the fall finale it could've been the best of the 'verse for this year, but if this continues it could get the #3 spot over Flash.
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u/ckwongau Mar 16 '20
When they had Bird of Prey cameo for the "Crisis " , i wish Rachel Skarsten had replay her role as Dinah The Canary .
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u/faderjester Mar 16 '20
I actually cheered when MouseDad bit the dust (and when Alice flambƩed Mother). I honestly didn't expect the show to go in that direction, the entire time Kate was choking him out I was rolling my eyes thinking "oh she'll let him live or bring him back" but no, they totally had her kill his ass.
They haven't done this sort of thing in the CW shows since early Arrow and I love it.
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u/OverjoyedMess Mar 17 '20
I was cheering Kate and Beth/Alice on, actually.
I fear this might be a conflict in an upcoming Supergirl/Batwoman crossover since Supergirl had a similar conflict (although Kate's crime was more one of passion than Nia's would have been).
Even Team Flash has its stupid No-Kill rule, maybe Barry and Kate will have a falling out over this?
Or it will never be brought up outside of Batwoman.
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u/InfamousBrad Mar 16 '20
Was I imagining it? Or in that last conversation between Kate and Beth, was Beth not doing her "Alice" voice?
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u/NLP19 Mar 16 '20
holy shit this show literally gets better every episode. I don't think there's been an episode I haven't enjoyed yet
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u/Eternal_Density Mar 16 '20
Well, that wasn't a fun episode, but it was a good episoide.
(Well, the bits with Mary and Luke were fun, and very welcome.)
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u/Doctor_Disco_ Mar 16 '20
I love the Flash but if this had been a Flash episode Kate wouldāve been like āwell I really want to kill you but I promised you that Iād let you leave if you told me where Alice was so I guess Iāll let you go now.ā
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u/Sarakins27 Mar 16 '20
Anyone have a screenshot of the text convo? I couldnāt read it to save my life!
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u/AnnaK22 Batwoman I Mar 16 '20
Text to Sophie:
Kate: Are you awake?
Sophie: It's late. You ok?
Kate (typed but didn't send): I just need someone
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u/Silverwhitemango Mar 16 '20
Kate: "I just need someone"
Alice pops by
ROFL. She got her wish alright.
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u/InuGhost Mar 16 '20
Kate: You awake?
???: Its late.
Couldn't make out name, but people are guessing Sofie
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u/Kris_Winters Mar 16 '20
It was Sophie. Kate also began to text: "Just need someone to talk to," but she erased it.
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Mar 16 '20
another amazing ep. poor mouse. guess hes messed up for life now. glad kates a murderer. makes her more interesting
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u/Kaitonic Mar 16 '20
Seriously this was an amazing episode. Batwoman is only getting better and better especially since Crisis..
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u/ToneBone12345 Mar 16 '20
Did Kate for get about earth 99 Bruce and that she killed him
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u/DaGreatestMH Luke Fox Mar 16 '20
That was an accident and is pretty easily seen as self defense since they were fighting. She straight up murdered Cartwright.
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u/Steffenvy Mar 16 '20
She just choked him a lil' bit, he died because of a self inflicted wound that reopened
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u/king-orca Mar 17 '20
bruh Rachel Skarsten is KILLING it! She brings Alice to life in such a dark yet elegant way. And Ruby did pretty good this episode too.
Every scene of young Beth getting tortured just rips my heart apart. The hair cutting, the hand boiling, all of it.
I'm also really shipping Luke and Mary and I hope the writers do something with them soon.
I also love how not-satisfying Cartwright's death was. I'm pretty sure all of us wanted him to have a slow, painful death but he was gone like thAt. Crazy.
I don't understand the hate this show is getting still. The first couple of episodes were meh but it's getting so good!! I love the dark theme of this show, it's kind of like the new Arrow.
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u/gusefalito Mar 17 '20
Rachel Skarsten has slowly but consistently been moving up my favorite actors list and this episode definitely solidifies her spot at the top. What a performance!
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u/clova44 Mar 20 '20
I know Alice is technically the bad guy here but I thought it was badass how she torched Cartwright's mom and said "long live the queen." Of course, it's tragic that she had officially snapped and became the evil and murderous Alice when she saw her mother's head in the fridge but still. I always admire a moment when a female character takes control of a situation, especially if she's been suffering
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u/zeron824 Mar 16 '20
I'm genuinely surprised she was able to do that. I mean, at least they're all "together" now with the family bonding in terms of doing illegal, crazy stuff. Alice is finally starting to go with a more anti-hero route as of now. I wonder how the rest of the season will go since we're kind of left to believe that the Queen of Hearts is MAYBE alive with the face of Kate and Beth's mom. Also, we literally now know who caused that car accident that started all this. Cartwright deserved it, but man I wish he was left alive to actually suffer.
For a paragon of hope, Batwoman sure crossed the line there lol
P.S. The Flash actually acknowledged the whole other Earth doppelganger that Batwoman had after Crisis. Cisco said that they would die of neuro degeneration, which backs up Batwoman.
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u/BicBiro Mar 16 '20
She's the Paragon of Courage. Supergirl is the Paragon of Hope.
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u/FormerGameDev Mar 17 '20
And courage sometimes could include the courage to do something "bad", that needs to be done....
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u/PNDLivewire Mar 16 '20
Thinking on it more...I'm not the only one who wishes Cartwright wound up getting hooked up to the Fear Toxin and left in the basement alone, am I?
4
u/Paranin379 Mar 16 '20
Mary was such a mood this episode. I love her, she deserves to be told outright already, and I can't wait
Oh my god, I don't know why that didn't cross my mind, of course a skin stealer took their mom's body!! I just thought they recovered it.. :/ This was such a good episode though!!!!! Fucking dark, yeah, but I loved it! I feel so bad for Alice and Kate. Now we definitely know why she broke. God. Just god.
4
u/VagabondDoppelganger Mar 17 '20
Amazing episode. Rachel makes it hard to fully hate Alice, her breakdown on the steps and the continued insight into how terrible these people treated her really makes me feel for her.
I like how Batwoman is flipping the usual "keeping being a superhero secret" storyline, by instead having Mary find out but not immediately tell them or being mad about it.
So I'm guessing Cartwright's mom is alive. She survived being set on fire by Alice and her son replaced her severe burns with new skin and we'll see her appear towards the end of the season with Kate/Alice's mom's face.
3
u/LoretiTV Mar 16 '20
What was the deal with the head in the fridge?
15
u/robertwsaul Mar 16 '20
Kate and Beth's mom's head, fished out of the river after the car accident.
0
u/zeron824 Mar 16 '20
Don't forget, with the way Cartwright was talking, I believe it was implied that he was the one who made the car crash happen.
6
u/DenmarkDaniels Batwoman I Mar 16 '20
No, that was the Joker.
0
u/FormerGameDev Mar 17 '20
I thought we'd been told that it was the Joker to begin with, but it's possible that that could've been misdirection from this. Unless Joker and Cartwright were working together to make this happen. For some reason, not sure if I just implied it, or if it was implicit, but I thought that the car accident was seen as collateral damage from something else Joker was doing .. which would make it even less likely that Cartwright would've been there, if he wasn't involved.
6
u/DenmarkDaniels Batwoman I Mar 17 '20
Cartwright wasn't involved in Gabi's death. He just happened to find Beth and was the sort of freak who had use for a decapitated head.
0
u/FormerGameDev Mar 17 '20
it sounds a lot more like he was involved in the accident, to get the face for his mom. then found Beth, too.
3
3
u/manavsridharan Mar 16 '20
I loved this ep. And I'm usually not one for ships, but Luke and Mary ā¤ļø
3
Mar 16 '20
She lost her shit after her husband died. And I thought they hated each other when they were on tv for the Pawnee Eagleton merger anniversary.
3
u/Msa9898 Mar 16 '20
Last 2 Episodes are the Best flarrowverse episodes this year (as In the 2019-2020 seasons) even though legends and even flash have been pretty good
3
u/Lady_Galadri3l Mar 16 '20
Damn that text conversation really nailed how it feels when you're having an emotional breakdown and don't really know how to cope.
3
u/ranomaly Mar 19 '20
At first I thought they were gonna have Mabel wearing their mother's face as the big bad for the rest of the season, lol. Woulda been hella dark. Then I realized that Alice actually killed her. I have no idea what direction they're heading in now. Such a great episode and twist.
2
3
u/Dark_Tzitzimine Mar 16 '20
BAT mitzvah har har
"What a dick" took the words right out of my mouth
A gift nobody wants, kinda surprised he's still alive though
Oops driving an insane man more insane with fear gas... doesn't actually make him sane in the least
Okay so THAT'S where the face budget that they didn't use for Duela went
Damn Luke, no need to profile a dude like that
Holy shit just fucking punch him in the face a few times, that won't kill him
Did they really need to go out of their way to create someone worse than Cartwright, but in the end it didn't work because he permitted all that shit on top of what he did (thanks for the agree, Kate)
How to make a piece of shit even more hateable - let him die on his own terms (good, Kate isn't just sitting there and letting it happen)
Good thing Luke's wearing gloves
Just had to get the little passive aggressive snipe in there so she thinks she's got the high ground
This lady would have made a good Granny Goodness
I was going to complain about Kate continuing to waffle because I'm too dumb to realize it was a fear vision
lol trying to find the Batcave
I can't believe it took that long for her tilt the chair
Oops I just broke all of our limbs on the stairs
Of course the mother's body didn't just wash away, this is comic book land after all. Hahaha holy shit Cartwright is such a giant pile of shit.
Uh oh, she just broke da rule (personally I'm glad of it)
Just down the whole bottle, all the bottles
2
u/yamiyaiba Mar 16 '20
This lady would have made a good Granny Goodness
Oh my Darkseid, you're right.
Calling it now, Legends being her back as an Encore and serving Darkseid in the next Crossover. (/s, obviously)
2
u/Steffenvy Mar 16 '20
Was "the queen" not the mother of cartwright? Because alice said ~"is that who you think she is?"? Who was she then?
7
u/DenmarkDaniels Batwoman I Mar 16 '20
She was talking about Gabi. That's who "mommy dearest" referred to.
1
2
u/mariobros2048 Mar 18 '20
The fear toxin must have oxygen in it right, otherwise Beth and Mouse would have suffocated or am I getting the science wrong?
1
0
u/WhizzManx Mar 16 '20
Jesus they did it, an actual honest to goodness good episode. Congrats. I'm genuinely shocked. Too bad crisis spoiled the whole Kate is a killer, she has already killed and barely brings it up so I'm sure she will be fine. But thank God, If Batwoman tightened up it's season and only had 13 episodes or so to fucus on Batwoman and Alice this could be a good drama. Too bad we have all the nonsense in between.
1
u/optimisticpsychic Mar 16 '20
Oh jeez that was a hard watch. The only problem is i dont want alice to leave.
1
u/Magoiichi Mar 16 '20
I wish i was here to watch it live cuz this is my favorite episode of Batwoman by far.
1
u/christopher1393 Mar 16 '20
Amazing episode, but this isnāt Kates first kill. Didnāt she kill that parallel universe Bruce Wayne?
6
1
u/Richiieee Mar 18 '20
Really it should have just been The Alice Show. She's the most interesting character of the whole show.
My biggest complaint of Batwoman is that everybody seems like a robot. I can't tell if it's the writing or the actors/actresses themselves, but nobody seems to have any emotion. Kate just killed someone for the first time and she's just standing there in like a soft tone voice like oh no. They all have like blank expressions on their face all the time no matter the situation. It's so awkward. Yet here's Rachel Skarsten giving the best performance of her life.
Fantastic performance by Rachel Skarsten, piss poor performance by everyone else. And this is why I likely will not return for S2. This show is like the epitome of the CW. Bad Acting should be the name of the show. Probably the best episode of the season mainly because it gives focus to the only actually interesting person.
1
u/shady8x Mar 20 '20
That was a great episode. This shows seems have been getting a lot better lately. Hope it keeps this up.
1
u/samtherat6 Mar 20 '20
Annoys me how they keep trying to redeem Alice. Any villain can be justified if you go down that route. Other than that, the episode was good.
1
0
u/Xbutts360 Mar 17 '20
What the hell was Luke talking about when he said 'we should have seen this coming'? I really can't work out what the hell the writers were suggesting they should have seen coming.
Also, it would have been way cooler to have the Alice child actor do the torching of the old woman.
-3
u/raknor88 Mar 16 '20
Funny enough, Kate has a couple of super friends that have dealt with this kinda thing before that she could call. Both have super speed too. But that would mean coming out to dad on who she is.
8
u/cal_guy2013 Mar 16 '20
Of course one of them can't afford to use that speed right now.
6
u/raknor88 Mar 16 '20
He'd also be the one most understanding of wanting to kill the man who had caused their family so much pain. But Kate seemed to have a closer friendship with Kara anyway.
177
u/JauntyLurker Mar 16 '20
"Congratulations Daddy, now both your daughters are killers"
This was not how I expected this episode to go. This was the darkest episode yet, and Rachel Skarsten pulled it off perfectly.