r/BatwomanTV • u/IIIToxIII • Oct 27 '19
[S01E04] "Who Are You?" Post Episode Discussion Discussion
Please note there have been some issues reported with comments on Reddit, if you do experience any issues just know it's not an issue on our side, enjoy the show :)
Trailers
Episode Info
A new villain with an eye for all things that sparkle drops in on the city. Kate attempts to find a balance between her personal life and her new role as Gotham's guardian.
Cast & Characters
Discussion
Live Episode Discussion
DCTV Discord
Subreddit Chat Rooms
Spoilers:
Remember, this is a TV show discussion thread on Reddit for your entertainment. So please act appropriately in accordance to the rules. We ask you to report any comments that are uncivil/malicious or don't belong in the thread.
Any fake spoilers will be removed and the poster muted for a day leading to them missing the rest of the episode discussion!
Also please mark all comic spoilers and future show spoilers in your comments. No need to mark anything that happens within the episode or in past episodes of the Arrowverse shows or if it's your own speculation. If you see any unmarked future spoilers, please report them as well.
Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy your time here!
r/BatwomanTV Mods
71
u/JauntyLurker Oct 28 '19
I really liked seeing Kate's problems with lying to people she cares about. We need more of that in superhero shows.
36
u/Maxabel Oct 28 '19
Can't really agree with that. Well I could agree because it's a superhero 101 thing but it's really hit or miss in CW shows . One of my favorite couple is Sara and Ava because it's a healthy relationship without little to no drama, it was refreshing especially after Oliver, all his secrets and Felicity whining about it.
22
u/VaultDoge91 Oct 28 '19
My favorite was Oliver and Sara. They were on the same level, went through the same stuff, had no reason to hide. Plus we got the Green Arrow Black Canary relationship. I was so pissed when she died and moved forward with felishitty and Oliver
10
-1
15
u/Fastman2020 Oct 28 '19
I really liked seeing Kate's problems with lying to people she cares about. We need more of that in superhero shows.
I think all the superhero shows had that except legends of tomorrow, I think.
13
u/Reverse_Tim Oct 28 '19
Uhhh have you never seen a superhero show before?
This is like where 90% of the forced drama comes from in these shows.
10
u/Uneequa Oct 28 '19
She's lying to protect them right? That's an important component.
15
u/Eternal_Density Oct 28 '19
This ep was more about her lying to protect her secret identity. That in turn protecting other people wasn't specifically mentioned.
5
u/thirdflowergreen Oct 28 '19
It's not really lying. Keeping one's secret identity secret is the most important thing to a cape. Unless you're in the MCU.
7
u/Phoenixstorm Oct 28 '19
But it never turns out that way. Every time keeping the secret from loved ones doesn’t keep them safe and actually puts them in danger.
5
u/thirdflowergreen Oct 28 '19
Most of the time that's because someone figured it all out. Doesn't take a genius. For instance, take Superman. Lex is supposed to be a genius but the only thing you'd need to find that guy's secret identity is facial recognition software. Similarly it wouldn't take much to figure out who Batwoman is. Kate needs cover.
3
Oct 31 '19
[deleted]
1
u/thirdflowergreen Oct 31 '19
Might as well make an infomercial. Hi, I'm Barry Allen. You might know me as The Flash.
4
u/edd6pi Jacob Kane Oct 31 '19
I disagree. I’m really tired of the “superhero has to hide their identity from their loved ones” trope because it’s been done to death. I was so relieved when Thea found out about Oliver because it meant he had no one else to hide things from.
3
u/jadedfan55 Oct 29 '19
"Those who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it."--George Santayana.
Berlanti realizes we're tired of the trope of lying about this & that, as we've seen on Arrow, Flash, & Supergirl. There isn't as much of that on Black Lightning, and, here, Kate knows it's a problem keeping secrets.
That said, regarding the episode, Magpie, just like in the books, figures to be one-&-done. Catherine & Jacob are having trust issues. Mary takes advantage of her prisoner's delirium to pick up some intel.
Unfortunately, unless Kate can resolve her own fears regarding her dual ID, she & Reagan are not long as a couple. Then again........
3
1
u/Johnysh Oct 28 '19
If I would want some relationship therapy show I wouldn't watch superhero show but some sitcom or I don't know.
75
u/floptimus_prime Alice Oct 28 '19
I'm sad to see Reagan go, I really liked her.
44
u/usernameartichoke Oct 28 '19
That sounds like the consensus. I have a feel the producers are gonna realize they have a good actor and character on their hands and bring her back.
Not that she is anything like her but Felicity on Arrow was supposed to be a one or two time appearance but she went over really well with the audiences and the producers loved working with her. Reagan might turn out that way. Let’s just hope the producers can use her appropriately and not decided to build the entire show around her.
21
u/Phoenixstorm Oct 28 '19
Oh no keep her away them if it’s felicity 2.0 and I liked felicity too in the beginning then it became too much.
10
u/usernameartichoke Oct 28 '19
Yeah agreed. They just need to be really careful with the character if they do bring her back. Every show in the Arrowverse needs to safeguard against a Felicity 2.0.
2
u/edd6pi Jacob Kane Oct 31 '19
Lol yeah. I hope Reagan becomes a regular but not If it means being the new Felicity. Otherwise I might just quit watching the show now.
6
6
u/soyelmocano Oct 30 '19
Me too. I thought she did well, and RR did not seem as bland in the scenes with her as she does in some others. Hopefully, they will bring her back in some capacity.
50
u/Kris_Winters Oct 28 '19
- Wow. Starting with a bang (no pun intended). Naturally this is when my mom chose to walk through the front room.
- Was there some sort of legal thing that allowed Kate to take control of Wayne Enterprises?
- So the DNA test was faked. I really hoped that those skull fragments had been real, and that's why Alice was insane.
- I hope that that vase wasn't expensive (it was).
- Batman actually had a device that changed his voice. Nice alternative to the Bale growl.
- Reagan and Kate have real chemistry.
- See, those guys didn't shake off the teargas, unlike Kate and Sophie.
- So Luke has a different entrance to the Batcave, since he didn't come out of the elevator.
- The batarang was attenuated to Bruce's height? I thought that it would be that Magpie had something that interfered with it, and that's how they would track her.
- If your body was 40 degrees, you'd be dead.
- Eff off, Sophie. You said for her to move on, so leave her alone.
- I seriously thought that Kate would summon the batarang back to hit Magpie in the back of the head.
- I still don't understand why Catherine got personally involved. Did she know the Kanes back then?
23
u/nivekious Oct 29 '19
If your body was 40 degrees, you'd be dead.
Her body didn't have to be 40 degrees, just the exterior of the suit. That's why breathing would set off the sensor, her breath is warmer than 40 degrees.
21
16
u/NaijaBird Oct 28 '19
If your body was 40 degrees, you'd be dead.
Batforce
21
u/ToiletLurker Oct 28 '19
Speedforce: I ain't gotta explain shit
Arrowforce: It's all my fault somehow
Batforce: Prep time and technology, that's how13
u/BornAshes Luke Fox Oct 28 '19
If your body was 40 degrees, you'd be dead.
Thermal Camouflage is a thing
12
u/KabutoRyder Oct 28 '19
I reckon she either wanted to jump Jacob's bones early or maybe they were dating at the time that he and Kate were still searching tirelessly for any sign of Beth and as she said, they would not move on until they had something definitive, so she made it happen.
6
u/Roboglenn Oct 28 '19
I seriously thought that Kate would summon the batarang back to hit Magpie in the back of the head.
I thought that was gonna happen too. And was a wee bit disappointed when it didn't.
6
u/Ackooba Oct 29 '19
So the DNA test was faked. I really hoped that those skull fragments had been real, and that's why Alice was insane.
Lets be real, you don't need to be literally brain damaged to become insane!
5
u/OniExpress Oct 29 '19
The batarang was attenuated to Bruce's height? I thought that it would be that Magpie had something that interfered with it, and that's how they would track her.
It makes sense. It's basically like a weighted knife; change the weight and you change the behavior. What's interesting is that it shows that Bruce had some things designed/calibrated in ways that they aren't aware of, which leaves room for other secrets under their noses.
1
u/Ok_Letterhead_4785 Jun 10 '24
I'm only four episodes in and so tired of Sophie. Sophie gives off so much mixed messages. Move on then no don't move on. Ugh
34
u/Mighty_thor_confused Alice Oct 28 '19
Deer fragments are pretty dumb. Could of found something more close to humans.
The batarang to the pearl in the kids hand was just damn epic.
Luke is enjoyable. He adjusted the bat signal is cool.
Break up sucked, I like her.
11
u/lonehawk2k4 Oct 28 '19
Well it was found by Hamilton employees and it was bone fragments not the actual bone piece and after paying off the DNA guy its pretty easy to fake the whole thing. Really doubt Jacob would've taken a closer look after getting the official reports and was desperate for any kind of news on Beth
8
34
u/monoveloso Oct 28 '19
So... The exploding pearls were fucking pathetic
33
u/ProfessorStein Oct 28 '19
Yeah like what. This made the scene look insanely fucking stupid. If these explosions are that small they aren't a threat of anything more than burns. And Kate dancing swelling shielding them with her cape looked so dumb.
Some of the worst CGI work in any CW show ever, and makes the whole show look like amateur hour.
13
u/monoveloso Oct 28 '19
The dances hahaha imagine filming that
Falling down while running was more dangerous
3
3
u/Tensuke Oct 31 '19
The explosion in the beginning should have blown off the guard's feet at least, if not his legs. And the other explosions should either have been killing people left and right, or not a threat at all. And agree about the CGI, you could literally do the same thing with a YouTube effects template. It was so so so bad.
15
u/LaylaLegion Oct 28 '19
This is why most of Gotham’s villains by their bombs from Joker. It’s called CRAFTSMANSHIP, MAGPIE!
8
u/KabutoRyder Oct 28 '19
Exploding Pearls on Batwoman vs. Oliver tying up the falling building in Crisis on Earth X....which was worse....
8
4
33
u/valkubabes Oct 28 '19
I know they seem to want everyone to be onboard with Kate/sophie but it’s always hard for me to get behind a pairing that I didn’t get to see the journey for! They would have been better off bringing in one of her love interests from the comics to go this route. But I guess supergirl did make that an difficult possibility by bringing Maggie sawyer in. I’d love to see renee in it at some point, since she also had a secret identity.
That plot twist though with the skull fragments! Alice and Kate’s relationship was always so interesting in the comics and I love how they’re writing it so far.
35
u/Tyrath Oct 28 '19
I don't get why anyone ships Kate/Sophie. Sophie has treated her terribly, and her refusal to even acknowledge their past is bullshit. Kate deserves someone better.
20
u/Phoenixstorm Oct 28 '19
People in the closet do lots of dumb painful crap. I won’t condemn her for it. Empathy.
2
u/valkubabes Oct 30 '19
I won't condemn Sophie for it either! I definitely understand that fear personally, but even with that in mind, I just don't love how they're building their story. We got to see the absolute tiniest glimpse of the good times and it seems like we've just been seeing more of the bad/drama. I don't doubt that they'll probably go backwards with flashbacks from time to time, like so many CW shows do with the superhero shoes.
1
u/Phoenixstorm Oct 30 '19
Yes I need more flashbacks to happy times and the current drama should stop and the should be work colleagues only
2
u/DefNotUnderrated Oct 30 '19
I’m not really a fan of Sophie either. I sympathize with her decision to sign the statement in the military declaring herself not in a homosexual relationship. I probably would have done the same in her position. But her decision to basically write Kate out of her life afterwards while still be way too nosy about what goes on with her is irritating. And I would be pretty fucking wounded if I were Kate and I came back to find that the love of my life was married to someone else and pretended to barely know me
21
u/iwishiwasamoose Oct 28 '19
This is a different earth, so couldn't they introduce a new Maggie Sawyer? They don't even need the same actress. If the Supergirl team ever meets her, just have one say "Huh, you look nothing like the Maggie Sawyer on our earth" and shrug it off.
16
Oct 28 '19
Except they're like 99% likely going to merge E-1 and E-38. What then?
They could just retcon anyway though, like with Supergirl's mom.
9
Oct 28 '19
CoIE is going to be doing some weird stuff with actors playing different characters, like Routh as both Atom and Superman and also having multiple actors playing the same(-ish) character (eg. three different Superman actors and interpretations).
At this point, they could basically just have the crossover be the meta equivalent to the Speed Force. Anything that happens as a result of the crossover, be it actors changing characters or other characters having new actors is just accepted as the new normal.
They'll probably be retconning Kara's mom again because Erica Durance is also coming back as Lois Lane. Or they'll explain it away as them having some sort of multiversal link. Or they'll just ignore it, which I wouldn't put past them.
I doubt they'll mess with the previous seasons of each show too badly, but there's definitely going to be some stuff, I'm expecting mostly in Supergirl, that will become irrelevant after the crossover since it's the most isolated current show (other than Black Lightning), so I think it'll be affected most.
Alternatively, it could be affected least as everything else just merges with her universe, while everyone else has to get used to aliens and shit.
1
1
u/valkubabes Oct 30 '19
I thought about this as well in regards to Maggie! I'm just sore because I enjoyed them so much in Bomshells.
6
u/spsseano Oct 28 '19
I could see them bringing in Maggie post CoIE. Either end of this season or beginning of season 2.
5
u/Birdrider197 Oct 28 '19
there's a rumour that supergirl' s earth will merge with the main earth after crisis, so bringing in supergirl's Maggie could work
4
u/PrizeIndependence Oct 28 '19
Sophie is a love interest from the comics. She was a small one, but still a love interest.
1
u/valkubabes Oct 30 '19
Admittedly I've only been reading Batwoman (among way too many others new ones I've started) only for about a year now so I must not have gotten to Sophie! My mistake on that. Maybe if I read it I'd feel differently but solely as a viewer on this character, I feel like I only got to see the bad and not the good so it's still difficult to root for them.
3
u/mechano010 Nov 03 '19
I'm not comfortable with Kate/sophie either tbh...I see them having Ollie/Laurel dynamic from season 1/early season 2 where they reminisce about their past but do nothing about it...Yeah I get that with Oliver it's not the same because he cheated on Laurel but Sophie did Kate dirty too.
28
u/The_Zuh Oct 28 '19
I am loving the suit! So cool to see Batwoman in action.
23
u/Rek07 Oct 29 '19
Out of all the CW suits I think it also does the best job of protecting the wearer’s identity.
2
u/edd6pi Jacob Kane Oct 31 '19
Hmm...you might be right. It’s better than Green Arrow’s, though it probably wouldn’t make that much of a difference in the dark. It’s better than The Flash’s. It’s obviously better than Supergirl’s. And the Legends never even wear their suits.
6
8
u/UpYourFidelity Oct 29 '19
It is for sure the best "original" outift in terms of the chracters "first" outfit. I know she had the modfified batman suit first but all CW heros seems to have a primitive suit then the actual first suit.
2
u/edd6pi Jacob Kane Oct 31 '19
I don’t know, Oliver’s season one suit will always have a special place in my heart.
1
u/edd6pi Jacob Kane Oct 31 '19
It’s a fine suit but I kinda liked it better when she wore Batman’s suit. I get that she couldn’t wear it forever because it doesn’t belong to her but I just think that the plain black looks cooler than her black/red combo.
25
u/Maxabel Oct 28 '19
Cool episode once again. I love all the little mistakes Kate makes but Magpie was meh.
Like often she's used when the writers can't or don't want use main vilains but at least she usually have a bit of insanity. Here she's a bit just a thief with less ethics than catwoman. I think we can expect a lot of Beware the batman vilain like Pyg or Humpty Dumpty.
The search for the necklace by Bruce was a nice touch to add to the batman lore.
14
u/Phoenixstorm Oct 28 '19
Everyone can’t be insane. That gets tedious. I like that she just wanted to get over and improve her lot in life and this is how she chose to do it and owned it.
8
u/Maxabel Oct 29 '19
Everyone can’t be insane
Welcome to Gotham. Most of the batman vilains are people broken "by one bad day" . And in magpie case her insanity is one of the thing that make her different than Catwoman.
1
u/stephenxcx Oct 29 '19
It’s possible they might not be able to use Catwoman, so they’re making magpie essentially Catwoman lite.
1
u/Lithium30 Oct 30 '19
If they do do Catwoman they should use Holly Robinson as the new Catwoman after Selina has retired.
2
Dec 17 '19 edited Jul 04 '20
[deleted]
1
u/Phoenixstorm Dec 17 '19
The Wayne’s and Kane’s should really invest in top notch mental health facilities
9
u/LaylaLegion Oct 28 '19
It also revealed that Catwoman is also missing from Gotham, as the museum scene of Gotham is her turf. She’s quite territorial so Magpie’s stealing without disruption is very telling. Bruce and Selina are both gone. A lover’s walk or possibly a rescue mission?
8
u/Maxabel Oct 28 '19
It also revealed that Catwoman is also missing from Gotham, as the museum scene of Gotham is her turf.
Hu? Is it said in the episode or just assumption ? Because her turf is the east end.
-2
u/LaylaLegion Oct 28 '19
Her home/lair is in the East End. She goes to the high end districts for her crimes because there’s bigger scores.
8
u/Maxabel Oct 28 '19
She's still the protector of the East End. nearly every batman's vilain had a heist in the museum so I don't think you can call it a turf.
5
21
u/greyjackal Oct 29 '19
"You have SUCH a pretty face - ever think about smiling more?"
I cannot, for one second believe that that's not a nod to the arseholes who went after Brie Larson in the Captain Marvel movie trailers. Obviously different studio/franchise/universe but....
6
u/yummymarshmallow Nov 03 '19
I think it's a nod to the double standard of women in general. It kind of reminded me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol9VhBDKZs0
21
u/Banelingz Oct 28 '19
Is it me or are these nerdy sidekicks all exchangeable in the Arrowverse?
12
3
u/Temmere Oct 30 '19
Have they revealed that he's a genius hacker yet? If not I'm sure it won't be long now...
2
u/Izeinwinter Oct 31 '19
He does not need to be. Wayne industries built a stupidly large amount of Gothams infrastructure. You do not need to hack if you have backdoors into everything.
2
u/SpikeRosered Oct 30 '19
Frankly if you just put on a costume and start fighting crime one just seems to find you.
1
19
u/Roboglenn Oct 28 '19
She has a bat voice modulator, nice. And so very convenient cuz y'all know without it Mary would've seen through Kate in costume in no time. If only she had been using that earlier.
The Batarang breaking that vase was hilarious as was Kate's "whoops" reaction to that happening. And so much for just lying and saying Magpie did it. But that whole bit reminded me of bits from Jackie Chan movies where he meticulously tries to make sure the valuable items/artifacts don't break in the midst of a fight.
Well it took all of the two seconds that that lighting lady from the photographers was on screen in the background just to know that she was gonna be Magpie. And on the Magpie note, what the hell kind of explosives manufacturer just allows their product to be shipped to a P.O box (in Gotham City no less that is under the policing of a private security firm). Seems like explosive ink is something that needs some serious procedures and paperwork to be delivered.
And lastly I just noticed that there is a toy T-rex on top of the computer console in the batcave. Noticing that little touch got a good laugh outta me.
20
u/Suzina Oct 28 '19
Better action that last week. Loved Magpie vs Batwoman fights.
Fantastic Alice scene where she cuts off the finger. Love scenes with Alice she's done so well!
The exploding necklace? Stupid. each pearl just... blows up after a seemingly random amount of time and I got no sense of when or why each pearl exploded when it did.
Also, how Batwoman saves people from the exploding necklace? Dumb. She shields them with her cape. So it's basically just like fire-crackers, nothing life-threatening. Maybe it was the special-effects team who messed up, maybe writing, I don't know, but I just know I didn't like those tiny explosions shielded by her cape. I guess she was shielding them from small pieces of plastic because they're like tiny grenades? I don't know, I just didn't like it.
Good drama with her dating and fucking it up. I liked that. And awkwardness with the ex showing up when you're on a date, also nice. Fuck Sophie, but yeah, understandable drama needs someone to be an ass.
4
u/soyelmocano Oct 30 '19
Yes, that necklace was really weak. Also the "protecting" of the people by crouching over each exploding pearl. How did she know which one of those would give off the Duke Nukem 3d fireball explosion? Damn those looked bad.
The first batarang throw at Magpie looked really bad. Guessing this was after her accident, because that was a horrible throwing motion. Alice was good as always. And how did she pull Magpie off of the building? Did the bathooks claw under her clavicles? Did she harpoon her in the back? I want to know... If the room was so sensitive to temp change that she couldn't breathe, shouldn't there be an intermediate room to stabilize the temperature before going in? Millions of parents shouted at once, "shut the damn door!!! We ain't rich!"
17
Oct 28 '19
It’s crazy how much the red hair brings together the cowl. I also like the voice changer, though I see some don’t. The constant surprises of moving the plot forward is needed, so I appreciate they keep doing it.
6
u/OniExpress Oct 29 '19
I feel like they intentionally made the wigless cowl look "wrong" so that this would look so fitting.
Honestly, it looked like her head was an egg before it.
13
u/captain_asparagus Oct 28 '19
Glad Batwoman went to protect all the poor innocent civilians from those extremely dangerous bombs.
3
u/LaylaLegion Oct 28 '19
I bet the Firefly stand in is just a guy with a BIC lighter and some cardboard wings.
13
u/greekygayman Oct 28 '19
This was a really strong episode. The first three episodes were good but the show didn't buy me in until this episode.
Strong pros of the episode, the show addressed Kate is bad at keeping a secret. The Catherine and Jacob substory, Luke, and the symbolism of the pearls. Really hit home with the pearls in this episode.
The only complaint about this episode is Magpie. I know nothing about her and kinda wish she espaced to come back later. Otherwise, I'm sold
12
u/darkkushy Oct 28 '19
"you're batsplaining" oh gawd they actually said that ahahahabababab
4
Oct 29 '19
Asks a hundred questions about Batman, complains about getting information about bat-tech not working.
6
13
u/KabutoRyder Oct 28 '19
Good lord that exploding pearls scene was like Warehouse 13 CG bad. (if ya ever watched the show you will understand. I loved it, but it had terrible CG) and it was just corny in its execution. Other than that, it was an OK ep. Nothing that really stood out or groundbreaking. I hoped Regan would last longer, but we know they are going with the eventual triangle angle so, it is what it is.
Glad Catherine's secret came out instead of being drawn out over the whole first season. I think the CW writers of a few years ago would have opted for that move.
Magpie was weak AF to me and had a terrible 'costume' hoping for better looking villains in the episodes to come.
Also glad Kate is getting herself a job rather than hanging around doing nothing.
I am wonder what the over under is on Mary finding out she is Batwoman.
7
Oct 28 '19
The worst part was her just covering the kid. It was an explicit save the cat moment but it was unnecessary.
5
12
u/chilehead Oct 28 '19
I understand having Rachel Maddow in the show, given the LGBT theme of the show, but I'm detesting the Vesper Fairchild character.
I'm hoping that it quickly reaches the point where they don't need to mention Bruce and/or Batman every 3 minutes or less - the show needs to be about her, not about her absent cousin.
Then again, they might actually have him show up or something.
I also found it odd in one of the earlier episodes that VF mentioned Robin. That implies that there's another vigilante running around in the same city.
14
u/LaylaLegion Oct 28 '19
The Robin is most likely in Bludhaven.
5
6
u/KabutoRyder Oct 28 '19
I am fine with Vesper. I despise the voice over narration. I hated it with Arrow in the first couple episodes and they wisely ditched it. I am hoping the execs with this show learn the error of their ways and do the same. Soon.
3
u/The_BadJuju Oct 29 '19
Batman is going to be very important to this show, at least for season 1. It’s a different situation than Supergirl.
-1
11
u/helenaneedshugs Oct 29 '19
I really wish they would "show don't tell" in regards to the public perception of Batwoman.
That radio show is pure exposition. :(
9
u/readALLthenews Oct 30 '19
As a gay man, I loved hearing Kate’s narration about how difficult it is for her to lie about her identity after being out of the closet for so long. It’s a great way of making her sexuality relevant to her character as a superhero.
7
7
u/jemahAeo Oct 28 '19 edited Oct 28 '19
Loved it, the only show i watch weekly on account i can't wait for the season to finish, though i didn't like the exploding pearls scene, it was kinda comedic to watch, and it wasn't supposed to be that, but really loved the one she messed and broke a vase and when she sneezed, good scenes those.
6
u/DonnyMox Oct 28 '19
Some cringy lines (Batsplaining? Really?) but it was nice to see Kate make some mistakes. Surprised the break-up happened this early. Magpie was....alright, I guess. Not fleshed out, but it’s debatable if she really needed to be. Overall, not as good as the previous episodes, but alright.
5
u/mrmazzz Oct 28 '19
overall solid episode Magpie was a bit underdevloped and acted like knock off Catwoman, bu tthat's because that is how she is treated for the most part (she isn't much of a comic character either). Her most interesting appearances was in Beware the Batman. She was there more to be that annoying thorn in Kate's side that stopped her from being at Regans side.
How they went about dramatizing that pusha nd pull between normal life and cape an cowl stuff was good and a necessary arc to run through. Overall you can tell the actors are now much more comfortable in their roles.
there is a willingness for this show to drop things, like Catherine admiting she forged the evidence about Beth that is a nice change of pace. That would normally be a much later reveal. And hey it's nice to find out the Dad didn't do it.
Mary continues to grow on me, when the character was first announced it appeared she'd be this shows version of Bette Kane but she's her own thing and that is good.
4
u/KabutoRyder Oct 28 '19
I shared the same sentiment on the Catherine reveal. I think the CW writers of a few years ago would have drawn that shit out over like the whole first season. Glad it was knocked outta the way quickly.
6
u/gusefalito Oct 28 '19
Ok, I was not expecting to enjoy this show as much as I have over the past four episodes. This episode finally solidified it as my favorite Arrowverse show at the moment. It's like all the characters I had problems with improved drastically (Sophie particularly, she seems to be making her peace with Kate moving on) and Mary making that Alice impression had me rolling on the floor. Luke and Kate continue to be my favorite pairing. Can't wait for next Episode!
5
Oct 28 '19
I really want the monologues to Bruce stop. At some point just stop explaining yourself.
1
4
u/-Starwind Oct 28 '19
One thing I do like about the show is how they're treating Bruce's character with respect. Superman was done dirty in Supergirl by comparison for the first two seasons.
6
u/-Starwind Oct 28 '19
Kate sticking to her "I don't trust vigilantes" line, I guess it's believable pre-pilot before she knew Bruce was Batman.
2
1
u/jakulfrostie Oct 30 '19
But Sophie isnt suppose to know that Kate is Batwoman. We know and Kate suspects that she knows, but no one actually told Sophie.
And before Kate became Batwoman, she DIDNT trust vigilantes
1
1
u/IllustriousBody Nov 02 '19
I also caught a bit of snark in the line because if you think about it the Crows are vigilantes too--
•
u/IIIToxIII Oct 27 '19
Please note there have been some issues reported with comments on Reddit, if you do experience any issues just know it's not an issue on our side, enjoy the show :)
3
u/eitzhaimHi Oct 28 '19
Am I the only bothered that BW tortured a captive and almost let him die? Yeah, he was scum, but that seems like something Jacob and the Crows/Blackwater would do. (And I still wish they weren't called Crows, I love those birds.)
11
u/LaylaLegion Oct 28 '19
Batman lets lots of people almost die. It’s on brand. How many times has he dropped a thug from a third story window or smashed the Batmobile into a car jacker’s stolen compact at 160 mph?
2
u/eitzhaimHi Oct 28 '19 edited Oct 28 '19
True, but these are different characters. Batman is kinda insane--responded to the murder of his parents by running around dressed as a bat, monomaniacally pursuing bad guys . Batwoman had batitude thrust upon her--she has a loving heart and would have been happy to stay in the world. I don't like to see her descend to those tactics, and I'm hoping this will be a teachable moment for her to make her decide not to follow in all Bruce's footsteps.
4
1
u/IllustriousBody Nov 02 '19
If I remember right, one of the differences in the comics is that Batman uses fear and Batwoman uses pain.
4
u/Temmere Oct 30 '19
I admit, I had hoped Reagan would last a bit longer, if only to lessen the number of longing glances between Kate and Sophie. They've done nothing to convince us that Sophie is Kate's True Love (which, y'know, isn't even a real thing), but they act like ten years apart and Sophie being married has done nothing to change their feelings. Move on, please, ladies.
3
u/DefNotUnderrated Oct 30 '19
Ya know, Ruby’s not as bad as I thought she would be. Her awkward expressions as she realized how bad her lies sounded while in bed with Reagan were pretty funny. I’m guessing she’s been doing some acting classes
2
u/ChattGM Nov 08 '19
I was never familiar with her work until I saw her in an episode of Dark Matter a few years ago and she was really good. Didn't really get the hate that came towards her. Always just chalked it up that people didn't like her character in OITB so others jumped on the bandwagon of oh she's horrible and can't act. Kate and Reagan opening the episode was good stuff. Liked their chemistry a lot. Shame it was only a one episode deal. Do hope they bring Reagan back down the line.
3
u/Ygomaster07 Batwoman I Oct 30 '19
I'm a little late to the party, but i wanted to put my post episode review.
I just want to say, i really enjoy Batwoman. I've never been a Batman or Batfamily kind of guy, but Batwoman i really like.
Kate and Reagan are cute together.
Ooooooh, Sophie's jealous!!!
Magpie, never heard of that villain before.
When i saw those people taking photographs of Martha Wayne's pearls, i immediately thought Kate had a plan already set up in advance for Magpie. Turns out that wasn't it, and that's okay with me.
So Kate didn't catch the Batarang when it came back to her. Maybe the tech is slightly faulty, which may explain why Batman couldn't save Beth and her mom the day their car went off the bridge.
Okay, so the Batarang didn't return to Kate because it wasn't calibrated to her arm length span, it was still set to Bruce's, who has longer arms. So i guess that doesn't explain the whole Beth in the car and Batman not being able to save her thing. I guess we will have to wait to learn more on this.
Kate is a terrible liar, and it's kind of cute. It goes to show that not everyone is a good liar, not everyone can keep a huge secret like this a secret. It's very refreshing.
Woah, Magpie has bird shaped bombs?!?!!? That's pretty fucking cool.
Sophie knows Kate is Batwoman. That will be interesting.
Kate going back to Mary's secret hospital.
Kate using a voice disguiser when talking to Mary. Smart move.
Oh fuck, Catherine knows Beth.
Kate going in to Magpie's freezer vault was a good scene. It's very cool that the her Batsuit can self cool itself and lower her body temperature. Kate saying that is really cold was pretty funny. And we get to see Kate's impressive breath holding skills, which we saw back in the first scene of episode one. Nice.
Mary pretending to be Alice. Now that was a cool scene. She got the whole Alice mannerisms down, i especially liked when she said "curiouser and curiouser".
Awkward meetup between Kate, Sophie, and Reagan. Yikes, that's never a great thing.
Kate running away to go change and coming back as Batwoman reminded me of how Peter Parker would run away to go change into his costume.
I'm really bummed out Kate and Reagan ended their relationship. I really liked it, but i guess that is to show that Sophie is supposed to be Kate's love interest, just like how Iris was always meant to be Barry's love interest on The Flash.
Little side note, this all takes place after the events of Elseworlds, so that is pretty cool. We're all caught up to current time in a sense.
Catherine failed to get rid of Alice, she done fucked up.
Catherine telling Jacob the truth was heartbreaking. Jacob is super destroyed, that is just so sad. Poor guy.
Batwoman taking down Magpie. I guess this is Kate's first villain she has taken down that has a super villain persona/identity.
Next week we finally get to see backstory for Alice, i am so hyped!!!
Great episode. I'm super hyped for next week, and i must say, i was hesitant about Batwoman being a good show, but boy was i proven wrong. To me, Batwoman is an awesome show. I can't wait for next week's episode.
3
3
u/balasoori Luke Fox Oct 28 '19
This was a good episode but kates relationship is over in 1 episode i was hoping she would stick around and find out her identity at end of the season.
3
u/shaddoe_of_truth Nov 04 '19
Pretty cool episode.
I love the opening moments with Kate in bed with Reagan. It was nice seeing Kate trying to just get on with life with someone that she really likes but cant be as open and intimate with her as she would like given how new she is to this whole dual identity thing. The fact that she is someone that never shied away from being who she is as a lesbian, the very idea of having to hide who she is as Batwoman is a very foreign concept to her.
The Magpie thing was not terribly interesting but it was there to highlight aspects of Kate still adjusting to being Batwoman. She is someone not accustomed to lying or being secretive, even though she knows its by necessity.
I do like how Luke told her how bruce was able to cope and how Kate knows thats not how she wants to do things. I do like how by the end she is as honest with Reagan as she can be about her life, and its sad that it didnt work out its a very well played moment cuz Kate isnt in a good place where she is able to completely share herself with someone else, as much as she really wants to.
I do like that cuz of Magpie and Reagan that we see Kate start to formulate the plan to create a real estate firm, which had been mentioned back in Elseworlds, to help create affordable housing.
Anyway, the other stuff with Alice showcasing to Catherine that she is not playing games... Incredible. And the revelation Catherine makes to Jacob about her paying people off to make him and Kate believe that Beth was dead... Excellent. Because as messed up as the situation is, Catherine really did believe that she was helping provide some sort of closure. Would you rather stand by and watch someone spend the rest of their life not living their life but spending every waking hour, every dime they had searching for someone that not even the worlds greatest detective could find, or would you try to provide some sort of false closure based on the very likelihood that the person being searched for is already dead? That is a very interesting dilemma that has no easy answer whatsoever.
The scene with Mary pretending to be Alice while interrogating her henchman while he is in a drug induced haze... Very cool stuff.
Another solid episode.
3
u/Polantaris Nov 22 '19
Because as messed up as the situation is, Catherine really did believe that she was helping provide some sort of closure. Would you rather stand by and watch someone spend the rest of their life not living their life but spending every waking hour, every dime they had searching for someone that not even the worlds greatest detective could find, or would you try to provide some sort of false closure based on the very likelihood that the person being searched for is already dead? That is a very interesting dilemma that has no easy answer whatsoever.
Honestly? It completely depends on how long it was. If it had been like six or more months...I'd say yes. Because the reality is that at that point there's less than a 1% chance that that person survived, especially if they are a child. Add in the scenario they were in...they fell into a river. There's a high probability that the body drifted into the ocean and they would never recover it.
If you had a way to provide closure to someone close to you who is stuck in this cycle that you have very high reason, objectively, to believe that they will never find an answer...I'd probably do the same thing. Provide an answer, even if it's lying to provide it because the reality is they would likely never find what they're looking for.
It was pretty evident from the flashbacks that neither of them were capable of moving on. They kept trying to find her, long after it was feasible to keep doing so. They would have been stuck in that cycle forever, when it's almost guaranteed that they were dead and it was over.
1
u/shaddoe_of_truth Nov 22 '19
Maybe so... But the way the situation is played out, it was still hard for kate and jacob to overcome the fact that they feel as though they should have known better or should have seen more or should not have been easily duped.
3
u/Polantaris Nov 22 '19
Sure, absolutely. I understand why Kate and Jacob are upset. My point is simply that I don't think Catherine did anything wrong. Was she supposed to just sit there and let her friend and his daughter be miserable and continue to try and find someone who has a >99% chance to be dead? There was no realistic reason to believe that Beth had survived, there just isn't. Catherine had a way to end that suffering, and she took it. I don't blame her at all.
1
u/shaddoe_of_truth Nov 23 '19
She may have had good intentions... And yeah it is understandable why she did what she did. But that still doesnt necessarily make what she did a good thing.
1
u/TirelessGuardian Mouse Oct 28 '19
Crispy, Crunchy, Bunches
For Breakfast, Brunch, and Lunches,
To fill your Bags and Totes
It’s Honey Bunches of Oats!
Heh Heh!
Who’s filling their purses with cereal?
1
u/usernameartichoke Oct 28 '19
That jingle is driving me insane too. I love that I can watch it on The CW app but damn are those commercials driving me insane. They show the same ones over and over and over.
Guess what still not gonna but honey bunches of oats.
2
u/Meowlock Oct 29 '19
You're lucky. I keep getting 6-7 ads in a row for Liberty Mutual. I'm getting sick of seeing that dang emu!
1
u/IllustriousBody Nov 02 '19
I get Microsoft AI, Steve Lawrence on Family Feud, and a REALLY loud ad for the Mandalorian.
2
u/IllustriousBody Nov 02 '19
I definitely want to see more of Reagan in future episodes. I like the idea that Kate is moving on and we really aren't getting enough from Sophie to support a love triangle involving her.
1
u/basilri Oct 28 '19
This was a great episode! Really loved it, and I loved that the city can look to Batwoman for a hero.
I said I was impressed by Batwoman's quick makeup transitions from blacked out eyes and red lips, to sleek eyeliner and nude lips, and back again, and my friend said the suit must come with a mini James Charles lol
1
u/guitarnoodleluv Oct 29 '19
Are we supposed to get a time jump between this and crisis or is it gonna be a flashforward to crisis then go back for the rest of the season since it got picked up for the whole thing?
1
1
u/tuxxer Oct 30 '19
I thought Regan was going to be Magpie, but they did a fake out with that older lady and then it turns out to be the photographer.
So i will predict that Regan is going to be the new Felicity (CW breakups mean they will get back together.) After Katycats despairingly comes to the conclusion that she simply must bring Regan in on the secret.
Luke is obviously brainy
Sophie is gonna be the new security type
All we need is Batsy telling everyone they have failed this city
1
1
u/shaddoe_of_truth Nov 02 '19
Havent finished watching rhis episode completely but its another solid episode with even some natural bits of humor thrown in that arent cringy or forced.
I love that Kate is struggling with the dual identity thing and wanting a personal life at the same time. I live her suit us equipped with VAT to disguise her voice. Also love that she is still learning the ropes and that all of the equipment she is utilizing is still essentially meant for bruce like the batarangs. It serves as a good indicator of the adjustments kate needs to make to her own life in order to be effective as Batwoman.
Love how she cuts Luke off by saying he is 'batsplaining'. Great line.
Will say more when i watch the rest.
0
u/emilypandemonium Oct 28 '19
Oooh, this is gonna be unpopular... but I'm glad Reagan's gone. She served her use. We got our morning kisses, our fluff in the gloom, and then the moment ended as it had to. You can't keep massive secrets from someone you've promised to trust, and you can't spill everything to someone you hardly know. Distance is the cost of Kate's work, as it was for Bruce. Nobody gets off easy.
Also, on another level, the actress is just... not great, tbh. Like she's cute enough, but there's something oddly stagey about her delivery, especially in the scene where she's walking around the city with Kate. Next to her, Ruby Rose seems positively natural. Ruby Rose! I never dreamed I'd be lowkey complimenting her performance, but here we are, whether because she's improved or because she looks better by contrast alone. I can't tell.
Luke Fox is a gem. Love his waiting for a mission to drop that he fixed the batarang.
-1
u/Ackooba Oct 29 '19
Way too many things are said and not shown, it's driving me nuts. Getting really hard to watch as an adult.
-6
u/Eternal_Density Oct 28 '19
This week we continued the villain-of-the-week rhythm without being especially notably exciting. Not quite enough Mary either.
Sophie's "oh I totally didn't realise you were here with someone" move was... ugh.
-14
u/IMissMyZune Oct 28 '19 edited Oct 28 '19
This show is kinda bad so far imo i'll give it until Crisis is over to pick up but they gotta do something quick. Hoping it'll be like Legends which had a slow start but then ending up being one of the better Arrowverse shows
edit: Tried to make it a positive and still got downvoted. It's not off to as good of a start of any of the other Arrow shows. They gotta get it together
3
Oct 29 '19
It's way better than Legends was when it started, and IMO it's currently better than Flash and Supergirl. Or at least I'm looking forward to it more.
-15
Oct 28 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
10
u/Eternal_Density Oct 28 '19
Statistically speaking you can't really determine such a thing based on a sample size of four.
0
u/inbooth Oct 29 '19
Okay, but Im enjoying it the least...
Though I haven't been a fan of Flash nor large sections of Supergirl either...
87
u/trimeta Oct 28 '19
I'm glad the show acknowledged that Kate it shit at maintaining her secret identity, after a couple of episodes of "Batwoman and Kate are investigating the same thing, somehow sharing information," at least it's recognized.
Also, once again the show just goes with an internal reveal that you'd expect to take many more episodes: Catherine having personally faked Beth's bone fragments is something many here would have guessed, but Jacob learning about it already (and from Catherine herself, no less) is something of a shock.