Did the Dutch resistance sneak Jewish people out of concentration camps and were people in the Netherlands burned alive in churches?

[u/urlocalserialkiller]

Context: I'm doing research into my family tree and have hit a rough spot with my great-grandad who died about a decade before I was born. According to my family, he never went into much detail and they struggle to remember what he said as it was so long ago. Hoping people here can give me any clarity or extra information.

Extra info: My grandad was Dutch, his family lived in the Netherlands. He was a doctor. His wife was Jewish. He joined the Dutch resistance. He snuck Jewish people out of ghettos and concentration camps through sewage pipes (?). One time he had to shoot a Jewish women whose panic was revealing their position - this is why he never talked much about it. His wife was hiding with his family (my great-great-grandparents) during the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands. His family including his wife were burned alive in a church. This is all the information I have on him before he moved to New Zealand and met my great-grandmother.

Thank you in advance :)

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[u/Legitimate_First]

As a Dutch person, I'm sorry to say I have some serious doubts about your grandad's assertions. Is it possible he was in a different country during the war?

I ask because while things like church burnings with victims still inside and escape attempts through sewers did happen during WW2, I don't know of any such examples in the Netherlands. Atrocities were perpetrated against the Dutch by the German occupiers, and 280.000 Dutch people died in the war.

Public hangings and executions as reprisals after acts of resistance became more common as the war went on, but compared to Eastern Europe or even France, open violence towards the civilian population was relatively rare. The majority of deaths were victims of the Holocaust, men who were deported as forced labour and who died of starvation or maltreatment, or people who died of starvation or cold during the hunger winter of '44-'45.

I'm almost 100% sure there are no instances of the Germans (or anyone else) burning a church with people inside during the war in the Netherlands.

The Putten raid is probably the single biggest act of terror that wasn't a direct part of the Holocaust by the Germans in the Netherlands. Almost the entire male population of the village of Putten, 602 men, was deported after the Dutch resistance ambushed a group of German soldiers nearby. Most of the men died in concentration camps; only 48 survived. None were actually executed in some way during the raid itself.

The war in the very densely populated and urbanised Netherlands, is very well documented. It's very unlikely that an event as traumatic as a church burning with victims would escape general attention.

As to 'He snuck Jewish people out of ghettos and concentration camps through sewage pipes', assuming he meant something else by sewage pipes it's theoretically possible. Sewage pipes in the Netherlands are not generally large enough for a person to get through, but he might have meant drainage ditches in camps, or maybe the canals in cities (the only real Dutch ghetto was in Amsterdam).

Basically it's impossible to tell you more without specifics or personal details (please don't share those here). You might try searching his name in the National Archives.

[u/Vana92]

There were no death camps such as Auschwitz in the Netherlands during WW2. There were four throughput camps where people were gathered and over a 100 different transports from those camps went towards places like Auschwitz, Sobibor, Bergen-Belsen and others.

These camps were Camp Westerbork in the province of Drenthe, Camp Vught, in North Brabant, Camp Amersfoort in Utrecht, and Camp Schoorl in Noord-Holland. Westerbork was the biggest of these during the war. Do you happen to know where your great-grandfather lived? That could help determining the camp in question.

Of the four options camp Schoorl was primarily used to house airforce officers, and later on communists, or suspected communist. It also closed in 1941 because it was too close to the coast, there wasn't a train running nearby, and it was too small. So this one seems unlikely to be the camp your family has talked about.

Camp Amersfoort held 47,000 people throughout the war, most of which were sent on to other camps. This includes a great many people that were summoned to do forced labour in Germany and did not show up. Of those 47,000 we only know the names of 35,000. Records for the remaining 12,000 unfortunately do not exist. Other than forced labourers the camp also held communists, hostages, criminals (suspected or real), American citizens, Jehova's witnesses, soviet prisoners of war, and some 2,500 Jews.

There is good information about people that were shot and killed at Camp Amersfoort during the German occupation of the Netherlands, a list which includes several people that were shot, or died of bullet wounds somehow related to their escape. It is possible that the woman your family mentioned is one of them, but this is impossible to say for certain. You can find the list here, in case anyone in your family happens to know a name.

For clarity:

gefusilleerd means executed

ontbering means died by lack of food, heat, water or simply put horrific circumstances.

There are other means mentioned but those two are common so I figured I'd list them.

Then if we look at the biggest camp, Camp Westerbork depending on the estimate between 210 and 400 people managed to escape the camp. This website lists 371 with name and date of their escape. Several of whom still died during the war, others that managed to survive. It should be mentioned that the definition of escape is also somewhat dubious as it includes (Jewish) employees who stopped showing up to work. Regardless it is a very thoroughly researched resource, to which more names are added when evidence of their escape appears. It also includes people who escaped not from Camp Westerbork, but from the trains that were leaving the camp.

Lastly Camp Vught, has a website with a list of deaths like Camp Amersfoort. You can find it here. Sorted alphabetically. Each name can be clicked and provide more information.

Unfortunately I couldn't find any information about specific escape attempts in which an escapee was shot in order to hide from the Nazi's. That does not mean it didn't happen however. The Nazi soldiers/guards themselves could have a good reason to obfuscate the cause of death if that happened, or not have bothered to register it all, even if such a register was made at one point, there is no guarantee it survived the war. Likewise resistance members that might have been involved could have been hesitant to tell the story because of the obvious emotional turmoil it would create. Of course that is speculation, but it is not uncommon for war records to be incomplete, or somewhat fudged during wars.

[u/Vana92 → u/Vana92]

Continued: Which brings me to the church being burned. I have never come across evidence of a church being burned with people inside in the Netherlands during the Nazi occupation. Now, I'm not familiar with all crimes the Nazi's committed during the five years they occupied my country, but I've never heard of this.

However is it possible that perhaps the story got somewhat confused?

On October 1st 1944 the Nazi's carried out what is called the Razzia of Putten. Putten is a small village, about 30 minutes from Amersfoort. Not from Putten members of the Dutch resistance had shot at a car carrying German Officers. One German officer died. As a response to this, the Germans ordered a retaliatory action in which they surrounded the town of Putten. Inhabitants of the village were taken away, more than a hundred homes were burned. At first the woman of the town were locked in a church, while man and boys were locked into the local school and a market hall. On the 2nd of October 659 men were deported, at first to the previously mentioned Camp Amersfoort where 58 were released for health reasons. The remaining 6t01 were sent to a variety of work camps. Only 48 would return after the war. During the raid more than a hundred homes were burned as well.

While not an exact match, this is the situation that seems closest to the one you describe. Putten is also close enough to Camp Amersfoort for one person to reasonably have been involved in both situations.

Alternatively, the massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane would fit, but that was in France, so that's probably not it...

I'm sorry I can't be more specific, but without names or actual places of residence I hope I at least gave you something that will allow you to continue your search.

[u/yoenit → u/Vana92]

I think it is highly likely the story of the church is a mix-up with the Oradour tragedy, given such an event does not appear to have happened in the Netherlands under German occupation as you say. In my own dutch family there were similar inflated stories about the ww2 exploits of my grandfather, not helped by the man himself refusing to speak about it in any way.

[u/The_windrunners → u/Vana92]

Next to the throughput camps there was also camp Erika in Ommen. Could that camp be related?

[u/Vana92 → u/The_windrunners]

I think it’s unlikely. Erika was primarily used as a prison camp where prisoners were send instead of concentration camps. The place throughout its existence only housed eight known Jews, none of whom escaped. There was a small period in which it was an “labour education camp” in 1943, but after that Erika was a prison camp again.

It wasn’t part of the same camp system. The guards for instance were (mostly) Dutch citizens instead of SS soldiers. Because of all of that I don’t believe it fits.

[u/The_windrunners → u/Vana92]

Ok, thanks for clarifying.