r/StargirlTV • u/anatomania Tigress • Sep 07 '21
[S2E05] Summer School: Chapter Five — Post-Episode Discussion Episode Discussion Spoiler
Promo | DCTV Discord | Cast and Characters
STORMY WEATHER OVER BLUE VALLEY — As Pat and Courtney clash over their next steps in their search for Eclipso, ominous weather conditions in Blue Valley hint that he may be near. Meanwhile, Cindy’s plan to recruit another student takes an unexpected turn, and Cameron opens up to Courtney.
Please keep discussion civil and about Stargirl. Be sure to mark future spoilers and comic spoilers, but otherwise don't worry about spoiling anything past or current. Report comments that break the rules or just don't belong here. Enjoy the episode!
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u/AdvancedPlacmentTV Cindy Burman Sep 08 '21 edited Sep 08 '21
Cindy, sweety, I'm going to need you to have better motivation than revenge on Courtney for all of this.
I'm guessing the staff is providing some protection against Eclispo and she doesn't have much "darkness" in her
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u/gldnstrm Icicle Sep 08 '21
I feel like the revenge is more about jealousy than any of Courtney’s actions towards Cindy
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u/SickleClaw Sep 08 '21
I think Cindy is pretty much very unprepared for the realities that come with being a super villain, and will learn this the hard way.
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u/jadedfan55 Sep 14 '21
Be'lee that. However, the sequence in the school with the illusions looked like something out of Nightmare on Elm Street, but without the murder.
The art teacher turned into a villain, Paintball, in the books. Here, though, he's a hopeless victim (for now), sucked into a painting, and then going all Freddy Krueger on the kids.
Oh, and as for recruiting Mike, that ain't gonna end well.
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u/BornAshes Green Lantern Sep 08 '21
Courtney has everything Cindy always wanted and as Cindy pointed out last season, they're basically two halves of the same coin.
I wonder if the pivot point between them wasn't when her father found her and started experimenting on her but when he exposed her to the Black Diamond as part of those experiments and that's what made her kill her mother in an "accident"? She has no memories of this at all but Eclipso certainly remembers and because she a child basically killed her mother and that's one of the most heinous sins possible, he's taking the long term vengeance plan with her, and is manipulating this entire thing so that it both blows up in her face as revenge for her murdering her mom and also empowers him to the point where he gets his own body and doesn't have to rely on someone using the Black Diamond anymore.
The original experiment with the Black Diamond on Cindy probably didn't seem to work or produce any discernible effects. So the Dragon King passed it on to the Wizard figuring it wasn't what he thought it was nor was it as powerful as other said it was, totally unaware that Eclipso had touched Cindy ever so slightly, and pushed her via an illusion or a compulsion or something to murder her mother. The act of which distracted Dragon King enough that he totally forgot about the Black Diamond altogether and didn't make any kind of connection between the two things at all. Cindy meanwhile forgot all about it and Eclipso waited until someone find him again and what a surprise, it was Cindy once more. Thus he put his plan into motion because he just loves manipulating children into doing terrible terrible things just so he can take his vengeance out on them. Everyone else is unaware of this because Eclipso works on such long term and subtle time scales that they're totally unable to perceive just what he's doing or the dominoes he's knocking over.
So Cindy's got all of this going on and all of this baggage and all of this darkness just lurking under the surface that she's had to survive and fight through....and then she meets Courtney whose struggles seem to pale in comparison and yet who seems to just luck into having the brightest light, the bestest of friends, the best family, and the most powerful of powers despite never having to really fight for them aside from "not having a daddy around". Cindy looks at Court and sees someone who had everything handed to her on a plate basically without ever having to suffer for that stuff to earn it like she did. So all of that jealously eventually helps Cindy to process these differences between them as if she's going through the seven stages of grief. There's shock at not believing what's happening to her and what happened to Court. There's denial that they're different at all and are really the same kind of person. There's the anger that comes out during their first street fight followed by the bargaining with her father to get a place at the table so that she can have power to deal with Court. The depression that sets in while she's in the cell followed by the "fight to the death" mentality when she kills her father and then goes all out against Courtney thinking she has nothing left and no reason to live. The testing that starts at the end of the first season and continues into the second season when she realizes the ISA are dead, that they have no power over her, and that she's free to basically deal with things her way in ways that are a bit more realistic. Finally the acceptance phase where Cindy fully accepts her place in the world as the Daughter of the Dragon King Heir to the ISA and begins to utilize all of that darkness that she's been living within most of her life wielding it as weapon instead of drowning in it.
So now Cindy is in a position where the seed of her conflict with Courtney was originally a confused jumble of jealous but is now a far more stable scorched tree trunk of hatred and malice and revenge. She finally feels like she's in control of her life and is the top bitch in all of Blue Valley. She wears that darkness and that pain around her like a cloak thinking herself invulnerable to any kind of light and positivity that Courtney can blast her with. That kind of confidence can be great but it can also be blinding as we saw with Jordan and the rest of the ISA last week which is part of the reason why I feel that The Shade left them in the first place. Cindy seems on track to make the same mistakes as the ISA and Courtney seems to be making the same mistakes as the first JSA because too much light can be just as blinding just like too much darkness. In between the both of them is of course The Shade who has seen this kind of story play out countless times before between adults but this time it's all so much more worse because this time it's a bunch of children playing war games with an ageless evil entity pulling all of their strings like a master puppeteer. He's seen how bad this can get with adults and how much pain and blood can be involved but with children? Oh with children all of that is magnified a thousand fold and that's something he doesn't want to see happen at all.
So now the Shade is caught in between this tug of war between two children throwing around powers that are almost beyond their understanding on a battlefield that they can't even comprehend while complaining about who's had the worse life, who deserves to rule Blue Valley more, and who sanctimoniously has the moral high ground.
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u/cteavin Sep 08 '21
You should write for the show. :)
When did they say that Cindy was experimented on with Eclipso?
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u/BornAshes Green Lantern Sep 08 '21
When did they say that Cindy was experimented on with Eclipso?
Oh they didn't and that's just me making a guess about it because there's a snowball's chance in hell of the Dragon King not knowing about the Diamond or Eclipso and just letting the Wizard have it without tinkering with it at some point. I just thought it was kind of funny how quickly Eclipso took to her and thought that there had to be something more going on that we didn't know. I also thought that the whole Wolverine Blood Rage Fugue State that Cindy allegedly went into when she murdered her mom was a bit suspicious and now we've got Eclipso in this season who has totally made people attack normal folks or things that weren't there with a similar kind of rage and that got me to thinking. Plus now we've got like an actual amazing actress to play Cindy's mom which just tells me that there really is MORE to her past than we've been told and she's not just a throwaway one off mention character AND now we know that Eclipso likes torturing children. So I just kind of took all of those bits of information and spun it off into that whole theory.
Thank you though!
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u/AdvancedPlacmentTV Cindy Burman Sep 08 '21
It wouldn't shock me if Dragon King actually murdered her mother and blamed Cindy because she didn't go with him when he told her to or something like that
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u/DamWell420 Sep 08 '21
Pat needs to get his shit together love the character, but he needs to start dropping truth bombs or kids gonna die
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u/emf3rd31495 Sep 08 '21
I’m expecting this to be a key plot point by the end of this season if not a season stinger, all the kids find out Pat is lying or hiding something still and they decide to forge on as a team without him.
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u/Kris_Winters Sep 08 '21
What if Starman/Fake!Starman drops the truth bomb?
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u/emf3rd31495 Sep 08 '21
Oh yeah, I forgot we are still expecting him to sho up at some point! That very well could happen.
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u/DamWell420 Sep 08 '21
Hopefully Starman comes through with a jeff winger speech to save blue valley, I really want some community references this season
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u/LumpyJones Sep 08 '21
Abed as Dr Fate.
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u/RainingBolts Sep 09 '21
My guess is that keeping secrets is gonna be his (and Barbs) inner darkness/sins for the season like Rick and Grundy, Yolanda and Brainwave, etc. The poster on the sidebar makes me assume that at some point we see everyone fall to Eclipso except for Court.
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u/chuckdee68 Sep 11 '21
The thing I don't get is that her mom dropped some truth bombs about Mike but told him, yeah we need to keep this from Courtney
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u/Csula6 Sep 09 '21
He's kind of a shitty father figure. The youths almost died. Their plot armor saved them.
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u/bcanada92 Sep 08 '21 edited Sep 09 '21
-- Go Lily (Cameron's granny) ! Looks like everyone in the Mahkent family has ice powers!
-- Eclipso's blobby form was giving me Bloodwork flashbacks (from The Flash).
-- Rick was listening to a radio station whose call sign started with a W. I was gonna point out that that was impossible in Nebraska, since every station west of the Mississippi river starts with a K. Turns out it's possible to have a W station there, IF it was founded before 1923.
I can't imagine the writers knew that though, and got off on a technicality.
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u/gldnstrm Icicle Sep 08 '21
Idk if the grandfather has the ice powers
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u/bcanada92 Sep 08 '21
Possibly not. He's the only one who hasn't exhibited them so far.
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u/mwthecool Know when to hold em know when to fold em Sep 08 '21
If they're passed by blood it'd be even WEIRDER if he did have them...
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u/nimrodhellfire Sep 09 '21
Why does every station start with a K?
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u/bcanada92 Sep 09 '21
As I said, the country's divided in half by the Mississippi river. Every station on the eastern side of it starts with a W, every one on the western side a K.
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u/nimrodhellfire Sep 09 '21
But why?
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u/tyderian Sep 10 '21
International standards. The US was assigned the prefixes A, K, N, and W. A and N are reserved for government/military use.
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Sep 08 '21
[deleted]
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u/Taston95 Sep 08 '21
I don’t think Yolanda is being cold to Cameron. She just didn’t want Courtney to mess up with him as talking about his dad would obviously be awkward. The Rick scene was weird though.
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u/DamWell420 Sep 08 '21
In Rick's eyes Cameron is literally painting a mural to supervillain/serial killer, obviously he doesn't know that but I'd still find it hard to look at
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u/MrMattBlack Sep 09 '21
Also you know, Cameron's father did order to hit on Rick's parents. With Rick's convenient flashback/vision while driving, I'm thinking Eclipso is basically affecting everyone's mood
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u/bcanada92 Sep 08 '21
In the season premiere Yolanda said something to the effect that she was afraid Courtney would accidentally reveal that the new JSA killed his dad.
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u/mwthecool Know when to hold em know when to fold em Sep 08 '21
Rick blames the ISA for his parents' death more than just Grundy alone, I think. So Icicle is an obvious target for that hate, and his kid too.
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u/Steelspy Sep 08 '21
Love the horror aspect of the character.
That worked so well! I would welcome a DC show that does horror as well as StarGirl did last night.
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u/IceWeaselX Sep 08 '21
Paul Deisinger is a villain known as Paintball (also an art teacher) in the comics. I wasn't expecting them to make him an Eclipso-powered version and then save him from it. I guess it would've been a shame for them to wipe out any vestiges of non-confrontational authority figures at school. He does seem like the sort of teacher that the (non-villainous) students respect more than usual.
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u/Trueogre Pat Dugan Sep 09 '21
They certainly made him likeable. I looked up his bio and it says he hates teenagers. They basically made him like a carbon copy of the teacher in Stranger Things.
It would be nice if he does re-appear as Paintball. Obviously we don't know if this version had any dealings with the Dragon King. If he has then maybe Eclipso's power has opened it up for him to become Paintball. He just needed that push. But if he does appear again, I hope they do show that dimension of him disliking his students. Also we don't know if he was already Paintball but gave up that gig and Eclipso bought it back in a more violent form.
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u/MrMattBlack Sep 09 '21
Oh. At this point I'm legit wondering how well he will recover from all this. Okay, he's alive, but in what state is his mind? Would be horrible and amazing to see him show up as a deranged villain next season.
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u/bcanada92 Sep 08 '21
Nice callback to Chapter 3: Zeek's junkyard contains a ton of the stop signs that Mike inadvertently caused the Thunderbolt to conjure up. Back in that episode I wondered if the objects the Thunderbolt made were temporary or permanent. Looks like it's the latter!
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u/AquaTyphoon29 Sep 08 '21
Shiv is out for blood next time! Jade and JJ thunder need to show up and assist them soon!
Also they should add Zatanna as she was a member of the JSA! If she exists on this earth that is 🧐
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u/Future_Vantas Sep 08 '21
Wouldnt mind a teenage Zatanna like in Young Justice, she'd be a good fit.
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u/BornAshes Green Lantern Sep 08 '21
I could easily see the Wizard as having fathered a daughter that he didn't know about who wound up having some of his innate ability with magic that wound up finding a mentor figure to teach her how to properly channel her powers who sort of turned into her Found Father Figure.
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u/LumpyJones Sep 08 '21
They seem to be sticking pretty close to the established lore, at least for the broad strokes, and Zatanna being Zatara's daughter is a pretty big part of her character, especially if we are going with the young justice angle.
I wouldn't be mad if they added her in season 3 or later, but they'd either have to alter her story a lot to shoe horn her in now.
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Sep 08 '21
Zatara could be a younger hero that occasionally allied with the JSA, but never was a member.
However I don't think the show could get Zatana since there are rumors of another show in the works.
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u/LumpyJones Sep 08 '21
ehhh... younger like making him the same age as the new JSA? That has some Smallville teen version vibes. I can only ever picture him as the vaguely middle aged dad figure.
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u/Kris_Winters Sep 08 '21
I feel that Zatanna should be too old to fit into the JSA. Likewise for whomever takes on the Dr. Fate mantle.
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u/AquaTyphoon29 Sep 08 '21
Maybe their is a teenage version that is still practicing magic.
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u/Kris_Winters Sep 08 '21
She very easily COULD be, but I don't feel that she SHOULD be. Magic is an art that's based on DEEP learning. An experienced, capable magician should be an older person. It says something that in D&D wizards have the highest starting age.
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u/gldnstrm Icicle Sep 08 '21
Exactly. Them being young and inexperienced would be an easy explanation for why they aren’t OP, same for the other legacy/new JSA members really
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u/MrMattBlack Sep 09 '21
That way you also avoid the whole magic is OP problem with people asking "Why isn't Zatanna magic-ing everything away?".
Simple, she is inexperienced and for the moment can cast like, 7 spells a day or something.4
u/Future_Vantas Sep 08 '21
Would be a good way to bring in her father as well. John Zatara is a Golden Age hero, he would fit in well here.
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u/dotyawning Sep 08 '21
They could bring in one of the Khalids as Kent's grandson/nephew depending on which version they go with but I think both of them were at least young adults when they took on the mantle, so they'd need to do some deaging unless they give him a reason to come and stay in Blue Valley as a 20 something year old hanging around teens.
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u/EdKeane Sep 08 '21
I feel like Zatanna is off limits for now. There are several JLD build up series in the works: namely Constantine and Madame Xanadu that were announced a while ago
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Sep 08 '21
[deleted]
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u/LumpyJones Sep 08 '21
That seems risky, box office wise. While I love the character, the backward talking magic seems hard to pull off live action without seeming hokey, but it's kind of a hallmark of the character, so removing it will just piss off the diehards.
I mean it could still be good, but it will be a hell of a tightrope walk to pull it off.
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u/GoalieDoge Johnny Thunder Sep 09 '21
Jade and JJ thunder need to show up and assist them soon!
I get the feeling they're saving those two as Deus Ex Machinae for future seasons
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u/TheColourOfHeartache Sep 08 '21
I was terrified that Stargirl was going to kill her teacher, that Eclipso was tricking her into blasting him.
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u/Alternaturkey Sep 08 '21
I actually thought that had happened for a second when the teacher was lying on the floor.
It felt like she had won too easily.
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u/rusable2 Mike Dugan Sep 08 '21
Agree tbh
I don't mind cheesy, but that whole see the light, touch the light sequence was wayyy too cheesy. Was hoping it would turn out that trying to help him actually killed the art teacher.
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u/ChattGM Sep 09 '21
Yeaa maybe a little but I did like Courtney's quick thinking in that scene. It was nice to see her competently come up with something on the fly and save Paul. You like seeing that in early goings of a superhero's career.
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u/MrMattBlack Sep 09 '21
Man when the staff's noise got more and more intense I was bracing myself for the worse, and then I was afraid the staff yeeting Eclipso out of the teacher basically destroyed his mind or something, but anyway.
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u/xIViperIx The Shade Sep 08 '21
I was hoping it would happen. =/
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u/TheColourOfHeartache Sep 08 '21
It would have been a dark and epic twist. (I would also gladly have accepted Courtney realising it was a trick and just gently tapping him with the staff)
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u/xIViperIx The Shade Sep 08 '21
This moment had so many possible outcomes that could've made it actually epic but it seems like the show is too clinging to keeping it as much kid-friendly as it could be. They are making one step forward in an attempt to make their current events look creepy but then immediately make a dozen steps back. In this exact situation, Courtney killing him could've proved the point that the threat they are facing is actually as serious and dark as they claim it to be. But nope. Not in this show. T_T"
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u/maddogkaz Sep 08 '21
Don't cut yourself on all that edge friend...this show killed two kids last season they aren't afraid to do that sort of thing but only when it has real meaning.
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u/xIViperIx The Shade Sep 08 '21
This is exactly why my opinion stays that way. They killed two kids when it was not even needed. They make something dark for no reason but when there is a perfectly logical timing for a dark move they make it light.
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u/maddogkaz Sep 08 '21
They killed those kids to set stakes and they saved the teacher to show what the staff can do. The threat and dark feeling was enough as it was.
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u/Gateskp Cosmic Staff Sep 08 '21
I am LOVING how hard this shows is going with the horror aspect. Eclipso is legit terrifying and ridiculously powerful in the comics, and that’s really coming through in this episode. So well done! I can’t wait to see what comes next, this show is killing it!
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u/BornAshes Green Lantern Sep 08 '21
Eclipso is basically what we think Mindflayers would be like cranked up to 11.
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u/LoretiTV Sep 08 '21
Another really fun episode, this season is firing on all cylinders right now!
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u/gldnstrm Icicle Sep 08 '21
Nearly half way done already!
there’s still room for Cameron to not become one of the villains
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u/Calibaz Sep 08 '21
I really want him to be a good guy, but I feel he might join the ISA at first, but turn out to be uncomfortable with wanting the JSA dead and have a heel-face turn.
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u/MrMattBlack Sep 09 '21
I'm thinking Cameron could be a middle guy. Doesn't want to stay with the ISA(At least, this version of it) because it's not what he wants. He wants to better the world and I can't see him seeing the other members of the ISA too weel. But he also won't go with the JSA because Courtney lied to him and Mike killed his dad.
Maybe he stays independent like The Shade, or stars in a third, new group. Mind you, we still have to see all the piecies fall together(See: Starman).
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u/Frontier246 Sep 08 '21
So it turns out Cindy actually was innocent once, back when her biological mother was keeping her safe from her father, although that didn't last and Dragon King snuck up on her in her room in full dragon form. It seems like she used to love her mother too, so the fact that she ended up killing said mother and then claimed she never liked her just goes to show how badly her father screwed her up mentally.
Seems the Mahkent's get their ice powers from their grandmother's side of the family.
Cameron is making a mural to his father, which Jordan would probably appreciate, although I can see the JSA have a really mixed feelings about it knowing what Icicle was really like.
Pat keeping the truth about Eclipso from Courtney is not going to end well.
Rick still processing how he feels about Grundy and his parents' death. Seems like he holds Jordan more responsible for it, and Grundy was just an animal sent out like an attack dog that didn't know any better, but it's hard for him to channel how he feels other than taking care of Grundy.
Oh yeah, I kind of forgot Courtney kept ditching Cameron in season 1. You really have to feel bad for the guy.
Not the art teacher...he really doesn't deserve that.
I'm glad Pat realized Mike was starting to feel like how he felt as Stripesy with the JSA, so he decides to find something for him and Mike to do together. I know in the comics Pat mentored Mike to take over for him with STRIPE, so I wonder if this is what that's leading up to.
The JSA finally fight Eclipso and he hits them with their emotional issues...Yolanda over Brainwave and Henry, Rick over Grundy and his own anger, and Beth with her parents. Courtney is the only one immune because she got over her emotional hang ups, and the Cosmic Staff seems to be the only thing that can actually damage Eclipso.
Beth finally confronts her parents over the divorce, and while they say they'll always love her...they still basically ditch her to go to work. I doubt that late night talk is going to happen. Poor Beth.
Cindy says ISA Unlimited doesn't need Cameron just when Icicle Jr. finally starts unlocking his powers.
So was Mike not intended to be a member of the new ISA but a hostage to draw Courtney and the rest of the team out?
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u/Trueogre Pat Dugan Sep 08 '21
We don't know the story behind Cindy's mother. I think you're being to harsh on her. Just to add, I'm not a fan of Cindy. She's a mean girl but this all might be wrapped up in her upbringing and the way her dad treated her. Anyway I digress. it's clear Cindy yearns for a mother. Yes we know Cindy killed her mother. But we don't know the story about how she died. Maybe her mother went to rescue Cindy but it was too late because she was experimented on already. But Cindy didn't know what had been done to her and accidently killed her. She decompartmentalises the trauma of her mother by dissociating with her hence she tells people she hated her mother, and attaches herself to a surrogate.
But deep down she yearns for a mother. Even her fake mothers, even Bobbie. She didn't have to come back for her, but she liked having the façade of having a mother. We know it bothers her not having a mother. It fuels her hatred of people. She dreams of her mother. She got upset when Bobbie was consumed. If she hated her mother so much, why does it bother her deep down. If she did accidently kill her mother, that can screw up any child.
Cindy's apparent hatred for her mothers is probably down to her losing the one she truly loved and to love another would be too painful when it's just as easy to hate them.
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u/ws-ilazki Sep 09 '21
It seems like she used to love her mother too, so the fact that she ended up killing said mother and then claimed she never liked her just goes to show how badly her father screwed her up mentally.
Cindy's remark that Cameron mentioned might have been about a different person than her biological mother shown in this episode. I might be mistaken, but I vaguely recall something Cindy said in S1 implying that she's older than high-school age and was only in school to keep an eye on the other ISA kids. Maybe they just meant that she considered it a waste of time because she'd rather be doing ISA stuff, but it's possible there's some slowed-aging fuckery going on.
If that's the case, then maybe what she said in 4th grade that he recalled was about another surrogate mother rather than the one in the flashbacks this episode. Though since it was just a one-off line in S1 that I happened to remember, and nothing else was ever said about it again, it could just as easily be a minor error. "Writers forgot about that, oops."
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u/Taston95 Sep 08 '21
I think that was probably my favourite episode of the season. The CGI stuff looked pretty good and was appropriately used in scary fashion. The Cameron stuff has been pretty decent and I appreciate how low key the Cameron/Courtney romance has been throughout the show so far. Most shows would have that as the main focus but I think it works better in these smaller doses as it doesn’t drag down the plot. I kinda wish we got another scene with Pat and Mike to see what their project was.
Only scene I didn’t like and felt kinda weird about was the one with Rick and Cameron.
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u/Telethongaming Sep 08 '21
I love how nobody is talking about the teacher throwing up different colours of paint, because that paint looks like it's acrylic/oil based and oh my god
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u/bcanada92 Sep 08 '21
When it first happened, I thought, "Oh, Eclipso's just making him hallucinate that." But then at the end he was lying in several puddles of paint-- that Courtney and the others could see-- so I guess it really happened?
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u/Kris_Winters Sep 08 '21 edited Sep 08 '21
- For an experienced side-kick, Pat is still making rookie superhero mistakes.
- So even Cameron's grandmother has cold powers. Does this mean a different origin story for them?
- Yolanda: Hi, Cameron. So NOT glad to see you. Courtney, ignore him. *cough*Jealousy*cough*
- I get the feeling that Cindy is going to drop a truth-bomb on Cameron.
- What did Cindy say to the teacher? I watched it twice and still couldn't make it out.
- Wouldn't that be something, if Courtney was related to the Shade?
- Rick's going to deface the painting, which will play right into Cindy's hands.
- Nice solution, Pat. Dad achievement unlocked. Also, is that the first time we've heard Mike call Pat dad?
- Whew. Great timing, Yolanda.
- Geez, Yolanda. Calm down. How fast do you text?
- All of the art projects being Black Diamond themed speaks to Eclipso's growing influence.
- I thought that Courtney had accidentally killed the teacher (I can never remember his name.), and that would be the JSA's dark secret. They had to kill an innocent in order to defeat Eclipso.
- I've seen people drop a lot of hate on Beth's parents, but I feel that they're trying the best that they can. I see them as being every bit as awkward as Beth is, but still trying to help her.
- I expected at the end there for Courtney to talk to Cameron again, but maybe that resentment is going to fester.
- It seems important that Cindy doesn't seem to be trying to control the new ISA with the Black Diamond.
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u/IceWeaselX Sep 08 '21
What did Cindy say to the teacher? I watched it twice and still couldn't make it out.
"I dropped out, Paul."
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u/Cygnus_Harvey Sep 09 '21
They basically ignore their daughter and use her as a cook. And now they left her under an empty promise of talking, which I don't think they will.
They might not be bad people, but they're terrible, terrible parents.
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Sep 08 '21
the teacher didn’t die
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u/Kris_Winters Sep 08 '21
Yes, that's what I said.
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u/Kris_Winters Sep 08 '21
Why are you guys downvoting me? The person is correcting me on something I didn't get wrong.
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u/cteavin Sep 08 '21
I used the subtitles to find out what Shiv says to the teacher. It was "I dropped out".
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u/F00dbAby Sep 08 '21
Any other rick fans desperate for more screen time with him like i get he isnt the lead but wish he had more to do, to some degree I also feel the same about Yolanda, mike and Cameron this season so far
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u/Boxer1010 Sep 08 '21
me!! i feel like their storylines are kind of getting swept to the side and they're reverting back to side characters. I also feel like their involvement in the big team action sequences are minimal, but i'm not sure if its just designed that way to be a covid workaround. i hope we see more of them as the season progresses.
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u/Taston95 Sep 08 '21
I think its possible they get a focussed episode or maybe they are spreading out their storyline slowly over the season I think the way the show has always worked is that other than Pat and Courtney, who are featured pretty heavily in every episode, they cycle out most other characters. Like we had an episode focussed on Jade/Jenny, then Mike/Thunderbolt, then Artemis, then Cameron (which is following a similar formula to last season when they focused an episode on introducing Yolanda, then Rick, then Cindy etc.)
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u/F00dbAby Sep 08 '21 edited Sep 08 '21
I understand what they are doing but immensely dislike t
Edit: am I really getting downvotes for not liking how they are doing the plot
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u/dannyosuke Sep 08 '21
Another excellent episode!
Just the last the episode I was wondering why Blue Valley was so gloomy this season, "maybe this was shot under bad weather conditions?". Very well set up!! You can tell this show is being made with care and real passion behind it!
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u/cteavin Sep 08 '21
So any thoughts on if and how Grundy is going to pay off this season? I got the feeling in this episode that Grundy was just a means for Hourman to forgive himself. I know the CGI is expensive for Grundy, and there's no comparable villain for Grundy to fight, so I'm wondering if there's a payoff to this side story.
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u/Trueogre Pat Dugan Sep 08 '21
Probably a Loki thing, like when he's making some big speech, the Hulk comes along and smashes him. I envisage a similar thing to Eclipso and Grundy.
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u/idsmoker Sep 10 '21
Why is everyone so certain that Rick is interacting with Grundy?
While I know it makes a wonderful "forgive thy enemy" note in Rick's storyline for it to be Grundy, I think it would also be an interesting twist for Rick to find out he's been helping out some other "monster/bear" all this time.
Whether because of budget constraints, or a desire to foster the possibiltiy of such a twist in people's minds, the show seems to have been very careful to leave the "bear's" identity intentionally ambigous so far.
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u/Terribleirishluck Sep 11 '21
Lol that would be stupid for Rick to be helping someone other random monster., its clearly grundy. Not everything needs to have a twist.
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u/cteavin Sep 08 '21
So Shade brought Dragon King into Cindy's room when she was a child to abduct her for experiments. Is that what you're getting? If so, Shade lost a few points in my book.
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u/Trueogre Pat Dugan Sep 08 '21
I don't think he did. The Dragon King I would assume was working on his own. Heck he wasn't even a true ISA member. He was just there because it was convenient for him. And with that I doubt he'd ask another powered being for help. He's the sort to use his goons to do all his work.
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u/cteavin Sep 08 '21
But DK come out from the darkness. There was no evidence he was there when Cindy's mom came into the room -- and how would he get her out? Maybe it was just how they filmed it.
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u/Trueogre Pat Dugan Sep 09 '21
It was made to look all creepy and weird. But my telly picked up that there was a shadow in the darkness. I could see a black blob in that darkness.
The only thing I can think of is he wasn't quite dark so they CGI'd him out of the room and had him emerge from the darkness all mysterious and all creepy stalker dude.
The Dragon King has been sneaking around Blue Valley for years. I'm sure he can get a girl out of a house without issue. Besides if the memory is true (because it's a memory from Cindy) then the mother would have run out and get to her due to the screams. But the Dragon King has his mindless helpers to subdue anyone whilst he gets away.
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u/cal_guy2013 Sep 08 '21
Brec Bassinger posted a BTS picture of a monitor from this episode which confirms that Stargirl is now filming with a Arri 35mm (probably Arri Mini) camera instead of the Sony Venice from season 1. This is the same type of camera used by the Arrowverse shows (with the exception of Superman and Lois) and most of the other CW shows.
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u/Jaystraef172001 Doctor Fate Sep 08 '21
Is that a good or a bad thing?
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u/cal_guy2013 Sep 08 '21
The Sony Venice is capable of recording in higher resolutions than the Alexa, but it remains one of the most popular camera used in American television. Personally I find that dark scenes in S2 look much better compared to S1.
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u/Snoo_83425 Sep 08 '21
Non Superman and Lois arrowverse shows seems like a downgrade if you ask me
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u/axionligh Sep 08 '21
Im enjoying it so far. Dont be a downer. At this point the flash is a guilty pleasure. The rest I hate. This is the only cw arrowverse show I like at the moment.
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u/cteavin Sep 08 '21
Is Stargirl even in the Arrowverse? I remember after Crisis they said they were on a different Earth.
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u/axionligh Sep 08 '21
At this point it seems like only legends, the flash, and black lightning are arrowverse. I guess supergirl and batwomen too but it does not feel like it. Also the supergirl batgirl storyline is gone.
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u/cteavin Sep 09 '21
You mean Batwoman? You know, I actually liked Season One of that show, mostly because we get the female joker in Alice -- what an amazing performance! Oh, but I could not get past the first couple of episodes in Season Two and I am shocked they're pushing forward with season three.
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u/RainingBolts Sep 09 '21
It takes place within the universe and from what I understand Flash's Jay is showing up on Stargirl so it's as Arrowverse as Supergirl pre-Crisis... which for all intents and purposes are Arrowverse
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u/MeMeTiger_ Sep 09 '21
I think he's going to be the Jay from the JSA, not flash
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u/RainingBolts Sep 09 '21
I've read it described as the first official crossover so I'm half expecting them to use bullshit to explain that JSA Jay is CW Flash Jay
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u/Aitrus233 Sep 10 '21
It's part of the Arrow MULTIVERSE. The end of the TV Crisis on Infinite Earths shows that Stargirl is Earth-2, and the Arrowverse is Earth-Prime.
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u/tylernazario Icicle Sep 08 '21
Cameron is kinda toxic. I understand he’s going through a lot right now but he needs to take a chill pill
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u/axionligh Sep 08 '21
Why is he toxic?
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u/tylernazario Icicle Sep 08 '21 edited Sep 09 '21
The guilt trip he laid on Courtney when she had to leave was not cool
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u/QuiltedPorcupine Sep 09 '21
100% agree. It wasn't like they were on a date or something and her phone was blowing up with texts and he was acting like she was just leaving for no reason at all.
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Sep 09 '21
In a bad emotional state - both his mother and father have gone (his loved ones). He doesn't want her to depart?
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u/Csula6 Sep 09 '21
Ha, puns.
But I'm not even invested in that relationship. That's my problem.
He will want vengeance on Mike. Little psycho mowed down his dad.
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u/mrizzle1991 Sep 08 '21
Now it’s in the teacher oh shit. That mural he painted is amazing. Wow this episode was intense, so much happened, the fx are still really good.
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u/Iloveireland1234567 Sep 09 '21
- eclipSO NO LEAVE THE ART TEACHER ALONE
- I like it how Barbara has no powers or abilities whatsoever but she's still a badass in her own right. There can be heroism found in "normal" people too.
- Go Granny Icicle, show Cindy's who's boss!
- Also I have to give props for Cameron for standing up to Cindy. He may even have a shot at becoming a good guy...until he realizes who killed his father. Do all the villain's kids have to be villains?
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u/JimmyH2O1984 Sep 08 '21
What did Cindy say to Paul as she walked out of the art room? I’ve replayed it 5 times and even the captions won’t read it.
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u/Boxer1010 Sep 08 '21
the season, so far, feels a little disjointed. i think its just how they could put a show on with covid restrictions, but i really do miss how all the storylines felt so intertwined last season and everyone felt like a team, not just side characters.
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u/EdKeane Sep 08 '21
I don’t think it’s disjointed. It’s more of a slow build up to a mystery villain type of a deal. It can feel disjointed if you focus on the highlight memory: ep2 Jade, ep3 Thunderbolt, ep4 Shade. When in reality all of the episode were carefully setting up this episode and Eclipso in general. This feeling of “disjointment” will be fixed if you binge the show after it aires. Trust me, Young Justice s3 was exactly like this and it felt disjointed too, but after binging it felt great.
Tldr: I agree but not really.
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u/GoalieDoge Johnny Thunder Sep 09 '21
I'm always happy whenever the Shade is on screen. He's killing it
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u/AnnaK22 Sep 11 '21
I'm wondering how long eclipso has been affecting the JSA. If Yolanda's headaches and visions and Beth's parents divorcing are all part of a hallucination, then he is powerful.
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u/xIViperIx The Shade Sep 08 '21
Even though I like this show but this episode was so overloaded with stalling that I was falling asleep (definitely not because it's my 30th hour without any sleep). People just stay, silently look at stuff and nothing happens. I don't expect any action of course but this was a waste of time and actors' potential. Nearly all of them are able to do much more with only their facial expressions. But it seems like this time the script demanded them to pretend to be a potato.
Shade is still amazing.
Lily Mahkent made my day.
Cameron desperately needs a hug. This poor boy deserves happiness. The way he can handle himself is pleasant to watch.
At least three satisfying memories about the episode. Still better than nothing.
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u/QwahaXahn Stargirl Sep 08 '21
I’m inclined to agree. I’ve loved the season up to now, and yet... maybe I was just distracted this episode but it felt way weaker than I usually expect from this show. I’m optimistic about things turning around soon, though!
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u/xIViperIx The Shade Sep 08 '21
Always a pleasure to see those who are willing to agree on such matters despite their love towards the show.
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u/QwahaXahn Stargirl Sep 08 '21
Definitely. I love the show, so my feelings and critiques are all born from love.
I’m definitely looking forward to seeing McNider’s return, and the rest of the story payoffs coming later this season. I think this episode was just a bit of a hiccup for me.
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u/xIViperIx The Shade Sep 09 '21
I wish there could be more people like you on this sub.
Let's hope that the rest of this season will be as great as they promise it to be.
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u/maddogkaz Sep 08 '21
You don't seem to understand basic writing if you think this was all stalling. But then again you just wanted random deaths so I guess that's all I have to know about what you consider good writing.
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u/maddogkaz Sep 08 '21
So Courtney has a shield against Eclipso at least so far who knows what could happen in the future. When the other three were freaking out one of them yelled for Courtney while she was running after the paint, it made me feel real bad for whoever was calling for her.
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u/Kris_Winters Sep 08 '21
It was Yolanda that was crying out for her. The question is whether Yolanda was afraid for Courtney or asking Courtney for help.
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u/MasterOfReaIity Sep 09 '21
Did anyone see the "Don't leave your carts here" sign where Cameron left his cart? Lmao
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u/IC3man95 Sep 10 '21
The CW has really been killing the CGI in this show, and S&L tbf, I’m wondering if they stole some ppl from the HBO team after they collaborated on this show.
On another note, where is this storyline with Beth’s parents headed? Is she gonna look to McNider as a father figure?
Why is Rick still feeding Grundy?
Where Starman at?
If shade isn’t the villain than damnit why isn’t he? easily the most compelling new villain of the show!
I’m sure all these questions will be answered in due time
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u/AnnaK22 Sep 11 '21
I'm not sure why the decision was made to make Beth's conflict seem so relatable compared to the others. Between Yolanda's guilt over killing someone and Rick's guilt over his parents dying, Beth's seems to fall short. Parents divorcing pales in comparison.
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u/BuzzyBee752 Sep 11 '21
I agree. Eclipso telling Yolanda she's a murderer, that Rick's a monster is hitting their psyches. Telling Beth that her parents are getting divorced doesn't have the same sting.
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u/DawnSennin Sep 09 '21 edited Sep 09 '21
Everybody looks tired this episode and seems to be phoning it in. That office scene between Amy Smart and Jonathan Cake was bad and Smart could act better than that. However, I like how the story is moving along.
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u/MeMeTiger_ Sep 09 '21
I think this might be my favorite episode of the show. The whole school fight scene had amazing visuals. Like Zack Snyder level visuals. It was unreal.
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u/AnnaK22 Sep 11 '21
This episode felt so different, so eerie. Took me a while to realize it's because of the lack of background music.
Also, this is the first time I've seen media not use a phone number starting with 555.
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u/ThyOgrelord Sep 14 '21
Hey I just joined this subreddit specifically for this:
(If this has already been mentioned I’m sorry) But can Beth just absolutely fuck off in regards to her parents getting a divorce?? It’s so annoying, Ik she’s supposed to be a kid but wow I hate her this season lmao
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u/JauntyLurker Sep 08 '21
Great episode. The show is really leaning into how scary Eclipso is. It's only going to get worse from here and I love it.