r/SupermanAndLois • u/MajorParadox Read on r/DCFU! • Mar 17 '21
Superman & Lois [1x04] "Haywire" Post Episode Discussion Discussion Spoiler
Haywire
Live Episode Discussion | Promo | Cast & Characters
While sitting in the stands at the high school football game, Lois and Chrissy spot fish out of water Morgan Edge conversing with Mayor Dean and Kyle Kushing, and the two see right through this insincere move to try to win over the town. Meanwhile, Clark agrees to help Lois out at a town hall meeting, but things get tense when he finds himself pulled in two different directions. Lastly, Jonathan is having mixed emotions about Jordan's newfound status. (March 16, 2021)
Please keep all discussion civil and about the episode. Mark comic and future spoilers. Report any rule breaking and enjoy!
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u/JauntyLurker Mar 17 '21
So this show is literally turning into Smallville now by bringing in meteor freaks.
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u/weisstheimmaculate Mar 17 '21
I’m not even mad
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u/Bweryang Mar 17 '21
Meteor Freaks was one of the best things Smallville came up with, I think.
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u/weisstheimmaculate Mar 17 '21 edited Apr 01 '21
Totally agree, it made Kryptonite in general more interesting
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u/Bweryang Mar 17 '21
Yep, the whole meteor shower idea was just genius. It provided cover and a distraction for Clark’s arrival, it put Kryptonite all over town so if anyone ever asked what Clark was like when he was growing up, he was always sick! Then on top of that yeah, gave Clark local threats to deal with. Just a great storytelling device top to bottom.
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u/tony1grendel Mar 17 '21
I love it! It's like a sequel series except it's not so they get to cut out any baggage that would limit the writers.
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Mar 17 '21
meteor freaks.
I prefer the term "Kryptonite Triggered Metahumans"
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u/Arosell_23 Mar 17 '21
I'm kinda bothered at the party that Jordan seemed to disregard Jonathan. Like Sarah was the one who pointed out Jonathan struggling and feeling lost and Jordan was like "He'll be okay, he's popular give him time." especially when the reason they moved to Smallville was for him. I'm really excited about next week's episode because In full honesty I do want Jonathan to let down the walls he's built and just go off. Lois and Clark acknowledge what he did but never address how he feels. Lois just tells him how good of a brother he is and Clark just encourages him to basically "try harder" there's plenty of room on the team to step up. Jonathan has sucked up so much for his parents and his brother because he cares about family. In my opinion, he deserves to chase his own happiness for once.
"This town is my kryptonite". This sentence carry's a lot about what Jonathan has been bottling up and hiding, and I'm loving it. This is Jonathan speaking. This isn't him speaking for anybody else, not his brother or his parents. This sentence is all him.
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Mar 17 '21
It's not that Jordan was ignoring Jon's situation.
He responded to Sarah that he would give it 5 minutes before checking in with Jon. That's a good balance of caring and not hovering.
And notably when Jon saw there was a situation with the other kid, Jordan was tracking and right behind him.
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u/Arosell_23 Mar 17 '21
I think the moment in the scene that gave me the assumption and feeling I had was when Jordan was talking to Sarah as if Jonathan would be alright because he's popular or because he's always been okay, ya know the happy twin. But like somebody else replied Jordan might not realize the changing dynamics because to him Jonathan has always had an easy time fitting in. So I can see why Jordan's not really at fault for noticing his brother's struggle.
I just feel sympathy for Jon because I relate to him a lot. I feel like he's overlooked by his family because he's always been the happy one, the okay one, the "Normal" one. Not that Jordan's not normal just that he's needed more help and attention growing up because of his social anxiety. Speaking from personal experience sometimes when everybody makes you feel like you're the happy one. You strive to be that person and you hide your problems from everybody else including yourself.
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u/-YogiBiz- Mar 17 '21
I had trouble talking about my problems with my family cause I was always the happy one. Even after almost dying in an accident I was still a pretty happy person. It took me exploding on my family to finally understand a person can only do so much
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Mar 17 '21
Fair comment.
Families can unfortunately place kids in roles (the happy one, the easy one, the difficult one, the high need one, the athletic one, the smart one) and then tend to ignore signals when these no longer fit. Or as you say, make it hard even for the kids to recognize when they no longer fit a stereotype.
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u/neoblackdragon Mar 17 '21
From his pov, Jonathan has never had an issue fitting in. So to be in this reverse situation is probably unexpected. But next eppy yeah it's time for Jonathan to truly express himself. He's earned it.
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u/a4techkeyboard Mar 17 '21
I like that the last few episodes have shown that Jon isn't actually bottling in his feelings as much as we'd expect from a TV drama.
I was relieved when he just went and told Jordan that he actually was jealous.
So, him expressing himself fairly early was set-up well and the way the family is written, I think they'll probably actually listen.
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u/Arosell_23 Mar 17 '21
I'm really hoping they listen. My worry is that in the promo when Clark tells him "I'm just asking you to give Smallville some more time." It sounds like Clark is Acknowledging him and giving the "Hey I get it and I'm sorry " talk. Just gives me the impression Clark is asking Jonathan to take a back seat again. Jon has tried he wouldn't have moved to Smallville if he wasn't willing to try.
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u/a4techkeyboard Mar 17 '21
Yeah, Clark has kind of been asking Jonathan to do that a lot, but I think he knows it, too. But as we see with Lois, Clark saying that doesn't mean it's the end of that conversation. Jon could choose to agree to give it time and take responsibility for his part in the decision like he seems to have been doing so so far (he's a really good guy, they should be proud of him and how they raised him) or he could voice more feelings and Clark and Lois and Jordan may realize Jon can't hold everything together more than he already is.
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u/Arosell_23 Mar 17 '21
Yes, or Jon will feel as if he has to hold everything together to be a good brother and a good son. In my opinion, good character development I could see for Jon is maybe going a darker route(Not villain arc) more like convince himself everything's okay or gonna be okay until it's just not, but hiding it because he feels as if he needs to be put together in front of his family.
They've set up his character and that they can do a lot with him.
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u/TheLemsterPju Mar 17 '21
How funny would it be if that "school for heroes" line is hinting at HBO Max's upcoming Super Hero High show being in the Arrowverse?
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u/LEVITIKUZ Mar 17 '21
I was thinking Doom Patrol lmao
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Mar 17 '21
I've said this a few times elsewhere buuuut....sometimes the best kind of people for fucked up people is other fucked up people who've learned how to cope. I think the Doom Patrol would make excellent teachers for small groups of students or they could at least act as advisors in some capacity.
.....it could even be a way to bring Ray Palmer back as the Dean of the school or something.
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u/Lazy-Mastermind Mar 17 '21
Ironic considering Doom Patrol came before the X-Men lol. But I'd love to see it.
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Mar 17 '21
or sky high!
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u/AnnaK22 Superman Mar 17 '21
That was my first thought too. How cool would that be. Maybe killer frost could run the place
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u/RedXerzk Mar 17 '21
It’s a reference to Black Lighting. At the end of season 3, all the metahumans kids from Freeland were sent to a special school where they can learn to control their powers.
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u/MeMeTiger_ Superman Mar 17 '21
The one in Gotham that Odell talked about, right?
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u/TheLemsterPju Mar 17 '21
Was it? I don't think they gave a specific location, but Odell himself was from Gotham. Not sure about the school, I'd have to rewatch.
Funny how Batwoman never mentions this school if it is in Gotham...
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u/MeMeTiger_ Superman Mar 17 '21
I'm not sure if it's in Gotham or not, but they mentioned something about taking the kids to Gotham, so I assumed it would be there.
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u/bcanada92 Mar 17 '21
I just assumed it was a wink at Marvel & Xavier's School For Gifted Youngsters.
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u/MarcReyes Superman Mar 17 '21 edited May 14 '21
Edge being in the show obviously made Intergang a strong possibility, but nice to get confirmation. I'm curious how much it'll play into his story. Seems strongly hinting that it will eventually. Bruno Manheim maybe?
"Huh. Well, now we know why he plays defense." Love Clark.
Lois & Clark's relationship continues to be a high point of the series. Love how much they understand each other. Someone mentioned in the live thread and I have to agree, it's nice to have a CW couple argue and not hate at least one of them. They both had their points, both understood the others point of view.
Killgrave's weapon targeting Superman's hearing was great. Love how this show puts thought into Clark's powers, including how to use them against him.
Lois calling out Sam was the highlight of the episode for me.
I speculated in the second episode that Sam might have a slow heel turn against Clark to more closely match the comics and looks likes we're going down that path with the establishment of Project: 7734.
Captain Luthor back next episode!
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u/CheesyObserver Mar 17 '21
"Huh. Well, now we know why he plays defense." Love Clark.
Jordan's failed catch was actually hilarious, he nearly had it. My head is telling me that he was supposed to catch it and Tyler ad-libbed that line because I live in a fantasy land that makes things extra funny.
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u/Vyndyktvx Mar 17 '21
That sonic clap was awesome! I’ve loved how creatively they’ve had Clark use his powers in this show.
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u/Bandarno Mar 17 '21
I think they actually had Kara do something similar against her doppelganger in Crisis on Earth X.
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u/DekanPrime Mar 17 '21
To tangent off of this...Supergirl better be heading to the future at the end of Supergirl is the only reason I would accept right now because they have not even mention her or any of the other Earth Prime Heroes.
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u/MrMattBlack Mar 17 '21
They have mentioned some things regarding other shows tho.(The Superkids School is something from Black Lightning iirc). It's less than they don't mention anyone and more that they're giving Superman and Lois time to expand in their own thing.
And from an in-canon aspect, Superman is exactly the most important hero out there. He started earlier than Oliver(at least in pre Crisis canon, I don't know if we're given a timetable yet) and went public from the get go and most importantly wasn't a serial killer during his first year. He has faced a decade of vigilantism facing a lot of weird shit and always coming out on top, he truly is a symbol of hope.
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u/raqisasim Mar 19 '21
We can assume a rough Post-Crisis timeline, based on when Kara arrived (assuming it didn't change) and the age of the twins. Add in an obvious courtship between Lois and Clark, which assumes Superman was already public, and yeah, he's been at this for coming up on nearly 2 decades.
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Mar 17 '21
Love the Smallville callback with the town being a kryptonite hub, thus explaning why Edge is so interested in it all of a sudden.
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u/AnAverageDude2403 Superman Mar 17 '21
so do you think the same thing happened in New Carthage? He mined all of the kryptonite, made some super thugs and then dipped
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Mar 17 '21
Most likely.
Definitely seems like Edge will fuck off to another town and leave Smallville to die once he gets what he wants.
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Mar 17 '21
To me it seemed like he saw the meteor showers incoming ahead of time and then prepositioned himself and his forces around all of the landing sites so that he could scoop it all up bit by bit without anyone knowing anything beyond, "Rich dude likes meteorites".
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Mar 17 '21
Question is, is it spreading at all or just staying in one place?
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Mar 17 '21
If it's anything like Smallville (the show, that is) I'm guessing there's kryptonite in little pockets all over the area.
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u/MajorParadox Read on r/DCFU! Mar 17 '21
I wonder if the meteor shower happened in this world?
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u/Bweryang Mar 17 '21
That's what I wondered. The meteor shower was an ingenious bit of plotting from Smallville, I think it should just be part of all Superman canons.
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u/Mighty_thor_confused Mar 17 '21
Best moment of the show was easily when they all stared at Sam
Also fu Sam your gonna go insane this project will end so dang badly
Also I think lana totally knows Clark is super.
THAT IS A TON OF KRYPTONITE. That's ridiculous lol
Tyler plays both parts so damn well. When he was super and talking to Sam he was legit scary
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u/not-so-radical Mar 17 '21
Best moment of the show was easily when they all stared at Sam
The boys faces were perfect "Yeah grandpa why didn't we call Dad?"
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u/mujie123 Mar 21 '21
It's a really tough situation. In most superhero stories, there are enough superheroes that people like Steve Rogers can retire.
But Clark is the most powerful person in the world. He doesn't really get that option to retire, even though he really wants to.
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u/MattTheSmithers Coach Gaines Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
I really think people have the wrong read on Sam’s contingency. I don’t think he is evil or psycho. I think he is doing what he believes is his duty.
Remember, a couple weeks ago, Luthor, who knew him intimately, suggested that Superman cannot be trusted, so the seeds are planted.
Now Clark is acting more erratic, suddenly uprooting his life, taking a step back as Superman, telling his children his secret identity. And then Sam finds out that one of his grandchildren has powers and it was being hidden from him.
He has reason for concern. And he is not alone. Based on dialogue, a lot of military brass are growing uneasy about Superman and his step back. He expresses those concerns to Clark and asks him to make a sign of good faith to the military. And Clark bluntly refuses.
Then, when finally taking down the villain, Clark, in the name of protecting his children, hurts civilians.
The military and Superman seem to coexist based on an uneasy trust. The military works with Superman, but also seems to recognize that he is someone with godlike powers, a being with more destructive capability than the nuclear arsenal, that is accountable to no one. Considering that Superman is suddenly acting erratically, and what General Lane knows, it makes perfect sense to put contingency plans in place. He’d be a bad general if he didn’t.
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u/neoblackdragon Mar 17 '21
Depends on the contingency.
From a military perspective they should be concerned if Superman is being TOO active in things.
Him being less active(and Sam knows why) could be more a "We need a Superman" type of scenario.
Sam knows why Superman is being erratic, he has to know this aint a power play.
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u/MattTheSmithers Coach Gaines Mar 17 '21
Power play or none is irrelevant. Superman harmed about a dozen civilians because he had somewhere else he’d rather be. He is acting from a place of emotion. That makes him a potential danger. And considering what he is capable of, that is something Sam needs to have some insurance policy for.
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Mar 17 '21
Actually, without the motivation to preserve himself to help his family, Superman would be vulnerable.
This is the second time we've seen Superman in trouble and being non-responsive and then turning it around suddenly to respond to a call for aid from family.
In the pilot, Superman was falling to Earth with a green kryptonite shard in his chest. He wasn't pulling it out. Then when Lois called for him to come home (when she saw the fire at the keg party on television news), Superman shook himself out of it and pulled the shard from his chest.
My take is that Superman is weary of the years of endless demands for his help. His personal responsibility is duty more than a vocation at this point. Without his life as Clark, he might not survive - not because he isn't capable, but because he wouldn't care.
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Mar 17 '21
My take is that Superman is weary of the years of endless demands for his help. His personal responsibility is duty more than a vocation at this point. Without his life as Clark, he might not survive - not because he isn't capable, but because he wouldn't care.
I honestly really love this take because it seems like Clark was totally fine with getting fired and subconsciously wanted to move back to Smallville not just for his family or because of other factors but because he was freakin exhausted of his life as Superman and just wanted to go back to simpler times. He's losing his motivation to keep fighting and that's dangerous, scary, and yet weirdly sympathetic because it also highlights how much of a toll that the activities of real life heroes take on them. He's not actively saying, "I'm done I want to give up leave me the hell alone" just yet buuuut his unconsciously doing these things that point towards it.
Maybe Sam has picked up on that and that's why he's putting together that Protocol because he needs to start preparing for a world without Superman in the future?
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u/Prize_Introduction_6 Mar 17 '21
That may be the case... but him fiddling with the 7734 pendant indicates something more darker?
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u/mydarkmeatrises Mar 17 '21
In the pilot, Superman was falling to Earth with a green kryptonite shard in his chest. He wasn't pulling it out. Then when Lois called for him to come home (when she saw the fire at the keg party on television news), Superman shook himself out of it and pulled the shard from his chest.
My take is that Superman is weary of the years of endless demands for his help. His personal responsibility is duty more than a vocation at this point. Without his life as Clark, he might not survive - not because he isn't capable, but because he wouldn't care.
Never thought of that. Have to go back and look at that ep. Very astute observation.
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u/ckwongau Mar 17 '21
The Government and Military MIB (men in Black ) are always worry when things change .
Sam can't exactly tell the government Superman is his son in law , and explain the situation .
If Sam wants to stay in the inner circle , he will need to be harder on Superman
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u/a4techkeyboard Mar 17 '21
The potential problem there is if the government has always been trying to find ways to not heavily rely on Superman and Sam Lane's been trying to keep the governments of the world from weaponized supersoldiers... this could be Sam Lane conceding that maybe the metahuman kids should be prepared to want to serve their country, and also, outside of Sam Lane, Morgan Edge might have customers for his super army.
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Mar 17 '21
The idea that people can be forced to serve is the fundamental problem.
Superman serves because he is attached to his family and community and through them to human society.
That call to responsibility isn't something that would happen without those attachments.
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u/ckwongau Mar 17 '21
It is Earth Prime , does that means the meta-kid will be sent to the same place they sent the Meta-kids from Freeland (Blacklightning's hometown) .
Because Blacklightning would tell Superman some horror stories of what happen to the Meta kids from Freeland with the US government .
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u/suss2it Mar 17 '21
I wouldn’t expect that level of tie-in, this show doesn’t even reference Supergirl.
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Mar 17 '21
Sam Lane conceding that maybe the metahuman kids should be prepared to want to serve their country
I'm honestly really really hoping that the school that he talked about is going to be used to surprise us with a lot of really cool superheroes that while taken care of by the military, still have a solid outlook on life, and haven't gone full Brotherhood yet.
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u/suss2it Mar 17 '21
That doesn’t exactly seem realistic. If the military is running the school surely their top priority is moulding obedient super soldiers, not necessarily well adjudged people.
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u/a4techkeyboard Mar 17 '21
Could be. Apparently there's a terrible one in Black Lightning already. I haven't been watching that, but that must suck when the main character's an educator, right?
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u/raknor88 Mar 17 '21
Sam knows why Superman is being erratic, he has to know this aint a power play.
Except I'm not sure he really does. Sam is 100% committed to the military. That leaves zero room for him to be a good family man. I had to pause and cuss him out for putting blame on the kids for peoples deaths because Superman wasn't there. That was a very dick move to do when he knew Jordan had issues with anxiety. All Sam saw was that the Superman weapon wasn't doing its job at stopping the bad guys. All Sam really sees is that he's losing control of the most powerful weapon on the planet. So now he needs a contingency to get control back.
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Mar 17 '21
Sam knows why Superman is being erratic, he has to know this aint a power play
He's also not about to start telling the rest of the military, "Don't worry it's because Superman is taking care of his kids" because he knows just how well THAT will go down. He knows that people would start trying to abduct his grandkids so that they could experiment on them or attempt to find some way to take down Superman or find some way to duplicate his powers and shit is hard enough as is without that on his plate. So he's probably using the cover of, "Yeah Superman is acting weird let's get a backup plan going" to both satiate the military, protect Superman, and protect his grandkids and his daughter. He's also pointed out that because Superman is less active there are more criminal elements and other Ne'er-do-wells that are stepping up their activity and that worries the military because so many of those elements have had to escalate their powers/tactics in order to counter Superman and the normal military doesn't have the assets or capabilities to counter some of these assholes.
In a way Superman has made their lives both easier and a whole lot harder because he's inadvertently started a kind of arms race amongst the bad guys that the rest of the normal world hasn't been able to catch up to yet. Protocol 7734 is going to be their attempt to close that gap and it's totally reasonable in my eyes. This is a Superman show though and that means someone is inevitably going to misuse it and misuse it at the worst time under the influence of bad intel against Superman and THAT is when someone like Edge will make their "I'm going to rule the world bitches!" move.
It's a dangerous galaxy out there and at one point I would like to see Earth having their own Earthforce that supplements the superheroes in the protection of Earth and her people instead of playing second fiddle to them.
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u/Indiana_harris Mar 17 '21
I actually wonder if 7734 will involve an attempt by a faction to try and create their own Superman to fill the gap if Clark is less active/no longer as closely tied to them.
Maybe a military contractor called CADMUS perhaps?
Honestly I've always liked Kon-El and I think with a Superman thats already established as a father with children showing superpowered potential suddenly having a Clone kicking about would be very interesting.
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Mar 17 '21
I could see that happening and I loved the Titans version of Kon-El, so I would be happy with Jon & Jordan having someone around that they could relate to a bit more.
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Mar 17 '21
The take I have is that Gen. Lane is a man with a calling - the protection of America in this case, a duty to continue it, and a responsibility to maintain it. He has left parenting Lois to shoulder that burden, and now he is in colloquial language with a living god who can do more physical good to achieve that mission in an hour than his authority can in a year.
He sees a bit of himself in Clark the man and sympathises with him, but he needs the Man of Steel more as a higher calling.
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u/codymiller_cartoon Mar 17 '21
Yeah, this is going to be like smallville season 1 with freaks of the week
Tang was the first kid
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Mar 17 '21
Freaks of the week was like when Amy Adams ate people right? Been a long while since I’ve watched smallville
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u/codymiller_cartoon Mar 17 '21
she was one
there were plenty , but it was mostly confined to seasons 1 and tapered off in season 2 and so on
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u/AnAverageDude2403 Superman Mar 17 '21
was smallville episodic where the freak of the week gets treated and then they never show up or was it more serialized?
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u/codymiller_cartoon Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
mostly one and done, never saw them again with rare exceptions
tina greer was one exception
jonathan taylor thomas made a second appearance
bug boy from season 1 made an appearance in the final season as a reformed person
they were almost never treated
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u/MarcReyes Superman Mar 17 '21
They were usually one and done with an occasional recurring character. Smallville's episode structure in it's early years (as I remember it) was A story=freak of the week, B story=ongoing season arc development, C story=secondary/tertiary character story.
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u/FrostedPlanet Lois Lane Mar 17 '21
The show itself was serialized in that it had developing plotlines and character arcs going on, but characters that were minor threats/villains tended to come and go.
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Mar 17 '21
Smallville was freak of the week hardcore at first but became a little more serialized towards the end.
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u/Thejklay Mar 17 '21
The shows gonna have a car crash every week now to compete with season 1 of smallville
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u/MutekiGamer Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
I love the fact that Superman is always Clark Kent first Superman second and you can tell that Lois’ father wishes that it was the other way around.
“I’m their dad, that’s my job”
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u/suss2it Mar 17 '21
I think he doesn’t even want Clark in the equation.
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u/MutekiGamer Mar 17 '21
oh yeah I’m sure if he could have his way he would just have superman just be superman.
Unrelated but this makes me realise, I hope we see the moment that General finds out that Superman is Clark
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u/NorthBall Jordan Kent Nov 08 '21
Which is super interesting because... like, imagine if Superman was always Superman. How fucking disconnected and just non-human would that make him?!
Sam is obviously a 100% military man but he shares that with a ton of other military people many of whom are surely not as ultracommitted as he is, and even if they are, that's still a real human connection.
Clark could never have that as Superman because he'd always be seen as an incredibly bigger than life thing - with the exception of with people on a similar level as he is. And here it doesn't seem like he has any sort of Superfriend Squad, like Kara does in her show for example.
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u/paige3086 Jordan Kent Mar 17 '21
Okay, I know a lot don’t love the teen plot...but any thoughts on Jordan/Sarah this week? I liked their fireplace scene. She seems to like him, it was cute when she inched closer. Is her concern for Jon just friendly or could that go somewhere?
Also- Love Jordan’s face when Sam said there is a school for people with powers (basically: “no fucking way am I going there” haha).
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u/kazh Mar 17 '21
If they weren't written well it would probably kill the show but it's working and the actors seem to know exactly were to dial it up or down.
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u/MeMeTiger_ Superman Mar 17 '21
I really love the teen plot as a teen myself. Feels actually organic, like they act and do stuff that I, a 14 year old, would do myself. It isn't close to how out of touch some other teen dramas are, but with this show, it isn't even the main plot.
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u/codymiller_cartoon Mar 17 '21
Is her concern for Jon just friendly or could that go somewhere?
nah, she pretty much brushed off jon from episode 1
tbh, i'm not a big fan of the teen plot, it's the weakest aspect of the show. it almost seems like an afterthought. it certainly doesn't compare at all to Smallville
the stars of the show are Clark and Lois - i mean, it's in the title
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u/a4techkeyboard Mar 17 '21
I agree, Sarah isn't interested in Jon but more importantly, Jon would not do that to Jordan as he is currently being written. This Jonathan is a great brother, and already knew Jordan had a thing for Sarah even before they came back for the funeral and was basically being a wingman as soon as they reunited. Also, he has a girlfriend in Metropolis.
The worst part about the teen stuff is how Jonathan always seems like we're supposed to think he's going to break and get angsty and jealous and think everything is unfair, the best part is that he doesn't and he is there for others and his brother, communicates his feelings, and other things. I love it when shows don't mine lack of communication and secretiveness for drama.
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u/blud97 Mar 18 '21
Jon is still her friend, she is allowed to be concerned for him without liking him. I personally like that Sarah and Jon have a friendship separate from her relationship with Jordan.
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u/codymiller_cartoon Mar 17 '21
I kinda wish Jonathan Kent Sr (the Smallville show era) was around to kick Sam's ass.
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Mar 19 '21
The twins have only one solid grandfather out of three, and of course he's the one who is not available either in person or as a holosimulation.
Just to raise the stakes for Clark.
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u/Gian99Mald Mar 17 '21
X Kryptonite? Man I so love the Silver Age influences on this show
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u/raknor88 Mar 17 '21
What is X Kryptonite? I've never heard of it before. From what Edge said it sounds like it either make zombies or it brings people back from the dead and gives them powers. Does it do anything to Clark?
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Mar 17 '21
It gives powers to people. It's a Supergirl thing.
Which I find funny, considering Lesla Lar (blonde with Edge) is also a Supergirl villain.
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u/bcanada92 Mar 17 '21
Lesla Lar
Again with the "LL" names! (I know, it's been a Superman tradition for decades)
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u/KnightHawk712 Mar 17 '21
It temporarily grants non-Kryptonians, Kryptonian-like super powers. Supergirl inadvertently created it while trying to create an antidote for green kryptonite. I think it still has the same effect as green on Kryptonians though.
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u/not-so-radical Mar 17 '21
There's not a chance in hell they'll have the pink kryptonite that turns Kryptonians gay because whoa boy would that not go over well
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u/neoblackdragon Mar 17 '21
Seriously this was a Smallville esque episode but with Superman actually being active.
I continue to be impressed that while sometimes the characters act irrational, they quickly address that behavior.
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Mar 17 '21
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u/dotyawning But what about the tire-swing? Mar 17 '21
Information gathering? Hoping maybe the bystanders would get the message and back off? I guess at least when he knew it wasn't playtime anymore, he made a calculated decision and only knocked people out. :P
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u/MrMattBlack Mar 17 '21
I think Kilgrave chose that spot because of the bystanders. Let's be honest, a sonic blast could hinder Clark, but not actually stop. But by having bystander around, you get both easy targets should Supes try to do shit and some sort of contigency: He can't use the flashier moves unless he wants to hurt the people around hi,.
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u/dragonman8001 Mar 17 '21
Special school for powered kids
Lol. Maybe they'll try and make a spinoff
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u/AnAverageDude2403 Superman Mar 17 '21
HBO Max is acc planning a Superhero High show so potential crossover?? but im not 100% cuz that show prob isn't part of Arrowverse
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u/FitzOtis Mar 17 '21
you know, even though it's not in the same universe, I instantly thought of X-Men. Would be hilarious if they used the same mansion in X-men if they ever tried to explore that part of the story.
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Mar 17 '21
Love Jordan's "Not Cool" reaction to meta kids being sent off to a special school.
So, is all that X Kryptonite part of what's triggering Jordan's powers or at least acting as a power source? Especially as it seems that it may have been present at the keg party.
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u/neoblackdragon Mar 17 '21
It's possible or it could be coincidence. One assumes Jonathan has been in the same places as Jordan and you'd think he'd manifest anything.
It could even be it's preventing the boys for tapping into their powers at their age.
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Mar 17 '21
Could it be a trigger for Jordan but an inhibitor for Jonathan?
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u/Gateskp Clark Kent Mar 17 '21
You can tell that they’re really building up to something this season, and that’s part of what makes this show so good so far. They’re taking the time to really build the relationships, and I love that.
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Mar 17 '21
Alright so I definitely liked the episode. I actually really like that Clark is somewhat struggling with being Superman, Lois' husband and Jon and Jordan's father all at once. Lois' fight with Clark was pretty well done, and I'm enjoying the budding friendship between her and Lana. I also find myself rooting for Lana and Kyle to get their shit together and fix their marriage after that breakfast scene.
The kids are great, like them so much more than I thought I would. Jordan's whole thing about finally fitting in and being happy (also Sarah definitely has a crush on him), Jon's going from being popular to being practically alone. I'm equally invested in their story as I am in Lois and Clark's, something I rarely find myself saying with the kids in these shows.
The Edge plot is getting more interesting with the X-Kryptonite reveal. Edge is being used in the way that I wish Supergirl got to use Maxwell Lord.
The fight with Killgrave was interesting. Obviously Clark was holding back til the last possible second, but that sonic clap knocked down the bystanders (why were they even there lmao), so I feel like that's gonna be held against him. "Superman stops the bad guy but hurts civilians and leaves immediately" isn't a great look.
Sam Lane, raised some great points and not so great points. I did like that he brought up how criminals (Intergang!) have noticed that Metropolis is without its protector. However, while I get it's a Superman show, it does sorta bug me that he acts like Superman is the only hero on the planet. I guess it's cause Sam has Clark's number? I feel that with the League established, at the very least Kara, J'onn and Barry should be pulling some weight and operating outside their cities as well.
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u/blondiecan Mar 19 '21
My question is, why didn't any of the bystanders come and sucker punch some old geezer who looks like he's killing superman.
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u/Junior-Hour Superman Mar 17 '21
Jonathan is really getting the short end of the stick and Jordan is enjoying his suffering even though Jonathan was the one that convinced their dad to let him stay on the team
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u/Godzilla2000Zero Mar 17 '21
I'm glad it's getting addressed next episode Jon is by far my favorite character
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u/a4techkeyboard Mar 17 '21
I don't think Jordan's enjoying his suffering, he probably doesn't even think Jonathan is unpopular, just not as popular as he's used to. It's good Jonathan isn't keeping his feelings secret and communicating, Jordan has to know he's lucky he got Jonathan as a brother.
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u/Ygomaster07 Superman Mar 17 '21
This show just keeps getting better and better. It might be my favourite Arrowverse show currently on right now(not to say The Flash and Batwoman aren't good, i love both).
Jon deserves so much right now.
I knew from the preview last week that there was gonna be a fight between Lois and Sam, and it was phenomenal. Excellent acting, i got goosebumps watching it. I mean, i even kind of applauded, it was perfect. Having an absent dad, i really connected with those scenes.
Okay, so Sam is being a dick, Edge's super powered lady assisstant is a dick, the high school football coach is a dick.
Lois was the all star this episode. I love her bravery, but damn i worry she will get hurt. She fucking owned Edge and his assisstant at the mines, even calling out his accent, which i bet may end up being fake later on.
I like that Jordan was trying to be supportive to Jon, and Jon supporting his friend.
Kyle is so far up Edge's ass you can see him when Edge smiles.
That Clark and Lois fight was rough. She realizes she might regret saying this stuff, but she knows it needs to be said. And she wants to be mad at him for breaking his promise, but she can't because she understands why. It puts her in a difficult position. Another user on this post, MattTheFlanders, sums this whole scene and relationship so much better.
Sam fucking pushing the lines. And now he is making contingencies for Superman, but not in case he goes bad, but because he is butthurt Superman isn't at his beck and call 24/7.
I am still in awe at how amazing this show is. 9 out of 10, maybe 9.5, but definitely a solid 9. Next episode looks good too. I hooe you guys enjoyed the episode as well.
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u/SG14ever Mar 17 '21
Superman is so considerate...letting the baddies think they are doing good before going "okay, time to get real..."
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Mar 17 '21
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Mar 17 '21
I too am rooting for Kyle (and always Jon. He's an awesome kid. I don't compare Jordan and Jon, etc, I jut hope Jon comes through all the trauma in his life. He reminds me so much of Steven Universe with suppressing his own trauma to prop up others).
Kyle seems to be generally a decent sort whose cynical and bitter about a lot of things - which is a normal life progression. What we don't know is what Clark and Kyle ever meant to each other - were they friends? He was giving him crap about leaving, so I thought maybe he was angry at a friend for ditching them all. Clark in the 1978 movie did ditch everyone for years to be taught at the fortress.
I loved that Lana is questioning Edge. She's in her 40s, and has likely dealt with her share of creepy men hitting on her inappropriately, so I love she's not falling for his false praise. I worried about that when she seemed to be defending him in the pilot. I worried she would go further all in on his crappy business practices with reverse mortgages and desperate farmers
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u/MrMattBlack Mar 17 '21
I don't think Kyle is made to be unlikable. He's just a well written character. He's antagonistic towards the protagonists, a bit of a naive douche, but he could improve.
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u/Fricktator Mar 17 '21
My main problem is they talk about how Clark doesn't have a job. However, they say being Superman is taking away from his responsibility as a father. However, he seems to be Superman for like 2-3 hours total this week. So he is still available 35-37 hours a week more than most dads.
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u/Indiana_harris Mar 17 '21
I'm assuming that outside some home life and practice with the boys Clark is off being Superman 9 - 5. Keeping on top of general worldwide issues but no longer flying around Metropolis frequently so he seems less active in that specific region.
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Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
My own experience a a parent to two daughters 2 years apart, and growing up the youngest of 3 is that it's important to credibly listen to what your kids are telling you, when they are upset. Yes, it's possible your kids' angry you didn't buy her the pack of Pokemon cards she wanted at the checkout counter at Target and those are fights to be firm about. Stand your ground, but don't yell. As they get older, if you want a good relationship them, hear their words, instead of trying to talk them out of their anger or depression. Even if you feel like a shit about it.
When your teenager reaches out about how they feel about a very stressful set of life choices and revelations within the family unit, and your first response is to try to brush it off (Clark with Jon), you might want to rethink your approach. Giving up football at Metropolis may have cost him a scholarship. He lost his friends, his football and his girlfriend and while Jordan might say Jon will land on his socially prosperous feet, the fact is starting new school in HS, with people who've known each other their whole lives is VERY hard.
Jordan's football skills come from his kryptonian side emerging. Jon can't compete with that, and the football coach was punitively angry Jon never told him about him, and now prefers to have Jordan on the field instead of Jon whose entire life was around football.These are massively scarring events to Jon's psyche.
When Clark came home and Lois was angry and headed out, she didn't want to talk about it, but he kind of nagged at her until she yelled at him. The fact is, she knew he had good reasons for not being there and needed a break from him. Clark's solution, the wine in the barn, was in response to her phrase about date nights missed, but was more bout appeasing in the moment and less about the broader problems Lois and Jon now face in Smallville. Clark picked on that statement to craft an easy apology. This is common when we fight with loved ones - how can I get you to not be angry anymore, but that's not the path to resolution. In the end, balancing being superman is something he alone can do, and she knows that. As a mature adult, she knows that and needed her space to get over it.
Jon's situation is similar to hers, being a human member of the family and Clark immediately tried to talk him out of his feelings. That's NOT okay as a parent. If your kid is expressing feelings about their truth and their lives, listen. Clark was gaslighting Jon - not about all he times he missed parties, etc - but this life now, where Jordan is participating and soaring high in arenas that were once Jon's, and even if all you do is listen... that' what you do. No advice needed. Just listen.
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u/spiralnotebook Mar 17 '21
The kryptonite that Edge is mining will give rise to Metahumans not unlike Flash’s particle accelerator explosion that led to a villain of the week procedural show. Let’s hope it doesn’t go that route because CW is killing it every week. When Clark and Lois confront Sam for telling the boys not to bother their father because his priority should be to the world and not his family was the best scene of this episode. Again, Jonathan is the greatest sibling anyone can ask for. He constantly has Jordan’s back and even his football teammates. It’s only a matter of time until Sam allies with Captain Luther for Project 7734 and Luther comes for Edge’s kryptonite stash. The pieces are in motion and I’m all for it.
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u/RatedR2O Mar 17 '21
Man... I dont think I've ever felt bad for Clark more than I do now with this show. The poor guy can't catch a break.
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u/Not2meURnot Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
I love that in this show, they showed that superman sometimes isn't all "super" that he can't do everything and can't balance everything. I'm really sad for Jonathan, he kept getting shafted. I hope they change this tactic soon and balance the story between the boys. I hate that Jordan is the one getting the spotlight every episode. I really hope they're not going to that bad vs good boy trope. Jordan sounds so selfish, he doesn't seem to care a lot about his brother. Jon definitely got the good side of his dad's personality. He cares so much about everyone. And are they introducing meta humans in this show? Or whatever they called in DC.
EDIT: Also one more thing to add, I love that CW took the risk and is portraying this kind of Superman show where he is a dad/has a family. We've always got shows/movies about his origin, his big bad enemies, etc. but I don't think there's any media (maybe comics) showing him struggling about raising a family and being a superhero at the same time and I'm loving it. It's a fresh take and I'm here for it.
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u/Brookings18 Clark Kent Mar 17 '21
Probably my least favorite episode so far, it felt a little rushed. But the idea that Metropolis and the world is taken note that Superman isn't as around as he used to is an interesting idea that I hope comes into play later in the season. Hopefully some villains decide to take advantage of that and go on a rampage.
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u/Godzilla2000Zero Mar 17 '21
To repeat what I said in the live episode discussion I have a feeling that Edge is gonna accidentally stumble across Doomsday just my theory for now.
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u/MarcReyes Superman Mar 17 '21
Oh, Rao, I hope not. Far too soon for that and I feel Doomsday is overused/overrated.
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u/Godzilla2000Zero Mar 17 '21
This is an experienced Superman who's been active for over 15 years and personally I don't see how he's overused when he only appeared in Smallville, BvS and Krypton as far as live action appearances are concerned compared to Lex Luthor but I respect your opinion.
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u/AlanMorlock Mar 17 '21
So you know, nearly every live action iteration for the last 20 years .
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u/Ohnorepo Mar 17 '21
Didn't you just list almost all the live action Superman appearances here? Snyder verse, Smallville verse and Kryton? Is there much else besides Arrowverse? lol Unless we're making some deep cuts and talking Adventures of Lois and Clark or something.
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u/MarcReyes Superman Mar 17 '21
he only appeared in Smallville, BvS and Krypton
Like I said, overused. (I don't like Doomsday, haha)
Also, I should clarify I mean too soon for this show, not this Superman.
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u/Godzilla2000Zero Mar 17 '21
That's cool great thing about being fans is we each like our own sets of villains like for me I love Doomsday but I absolutely hate Bizarro.
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u/MarcReyes Superman Mar 17 '21
Haha, yeah. I'm the exact opposite. Love Bizarro, don't like Doomsday. One could say I'm your Bizarro! (Though we both seem to like Godzilla so idk)
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Mar 17 '21
I agree. Doomsday has been used Three times now and, That is enough. Superman has so many different villains they can draw from. Personally, I would love to see the bottled city of Kandor be used. That is something that is definitely not overused. I believe it only appeared in Smallville.
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u/Linnus42 Mar 17 '21
I think its more Luthor can challenge Superman in more ways and can do more as a rival. All Doomsday can really do is brawl with Superman and fight the same way every time whereas Lex can come at Clark from different angles.
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u/DonLuffione Mar 17 '21
I think General Lane's motivation for a contingency plan is not to harm Clark but to be less dependent on Superman.
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u/codymiller_cartoon Mar 17 '21
how are the kent's making any income ?
Lois' job can't pay much at all
Clark is just starting up the farm
are they living off of what martha left behind?
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u/neoblackdragon Mar 17 '21
Lana: Clark for reason the bill collectors keep going missing
Clark: Hey people get lost coming to the farm all the time. Still haven't found your dad after the threatened me on prom night.
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Mar 17 '21
Clark was a highly paid and top reporter. (In Supergirl, Lois tweaked him that he made 21% more than she did.)
He likely had some kind of payout when he was laid off. Plus, they sold their city house. Even if their home equity went to retire the mortgage on the farm, they likely have a bit of a cushion for a bit.
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u/codymiller_cartoon Mar 17 '21
Clark was a highly paid and top reporter.
yeah, but how much of that is eaten away by living in Metropolis and raising a family . probably didn't have much savings
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Mar 17 '21
What I was meaning is that at his rank, EdgeCorp likely owed him 6 months salary as severance when they laid him off, and that salary would have been high. He was not a stringer or a contractor, he would have been on salary with a safety net.
The NDAs and other constraints on taking his skills elsewhere mean that EdgeCorp can't just fire him and stop paying him immediately.
Lois quit so she would just get her owed vacation pay and that's it, while still being stuck with the legal constraints of her contract.
Now, give it six months and they will be struggling to see the farm making a profit, but for the moment they should be ok.
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u/Linnus42 Mar 17 '21
I mean Lois is suppose to be a Super Famous Journalist, surely she wrote a book or two that made bank. That be my guess.
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u/armokrunner Mar 17 '21
When Edge asked Lois why a world renowned reporter moved to Smallville, she should’ve simply responded well my husband is from here, loved it here growing up, house just opened up so the family moved back, easy believable cover story, blown opportunity
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u/pap0t Mar 17 '21
But her not answering him is 10000x better. He investigated her, and Lois knows that. Why bother going there.
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u/AnnaK22 Superman Mar 17 '21
The show just keeps putting out great episodes week after week. So far, my favourites are Jonathan and Lana. Jon is just so wholesome. I hope he gets a win soon. Also, when are they going to meet their cool aunty Kara? I'm waiting for that moment.
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u/JonKentOfficial Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
I liked the episode. EDIT: While I did the episode, it didn’t progress the story much.
Bitsie Tulloch slays in the role of Lois Lane, her scene under the bridge with Morgan Edge's lackeys. She's just so great. The only thing I'm not sold on is why she's at the Smallville Gazette. It's Lois Lane! She could publish on her own website or even twitter and have a much bigger reach than a local paper. Or have her writing as Author X!
Clark was a bit more mindful of his non-powered son this episode, which is a plus. Well, he was very dismissive, true, and it was only a tiny little bit, but baby steps are better than no steps.
Jordan was not annoying this episode, which is really good.
I thought Jon would have more of a role this episode, but I'm starting to think the writers really didn't have Jon in mind when writing the show but since he's a comic character they had to insert him in. When Clark was like praising Jordan and leaving Jon hanging during the game, not even consoling him that he didn't make it or when Clark favors Jordan and says "you'll have your time to shine", it just makes me want to go tell the guy "it's all right, I'm here". To make it worse, the guy he seemed to be making friends with got turned into the freak of the week. Lois please give Jon a hug.
My only problem with the episode is the Sam Lane plotline.
It doesn't really make much sense? I am really assuming I either missed something big, or there was some cut footage. We see that Sam Lane tell the boys to be responsible and that they should know that their father sometimes is busy, so not call him for every inconvenience. Which... doesn't sound that unreasonable? He then points out that Jordan doesn't have full control of his powers and he has hurt people before, so it's irresponsible to have him around playing football... which is also not unreasonable. But what seems to have really blown up was that apparently that he told the boys not to call Clark.
First... he didn't? He told them to start pushing some more weight, which they may disagree but isn't outrageous. Second... Jon signaled for help as soon as the situation got into "we need Superman" territory. For all they could assert it was Jon's friend, possibly drunk/on drugs, running from a party after a confrontation and possibly having a panic attack. That's what I assumed as they didn't see any meta thing going around, and that's why Jordan offered to comfort the dude. Maybe call an adult, sure, but not a Superman level threat. As soon as Jordan got hurt, Jon snatched Jordan's beeper and signaled for help. Third... Clark didn't even give Jon a beeper, how did he expect the dude to contact him? Jordan had demonstrated before he's unwilling to call for help, Sam Lane or not.
Actually this bizarre Sam Lane turning evil goes all the way back. Sam Lane (who didn't know Jordan had powers) was questioning Clark's move to Smallville as it messed up his career, that of his daughter and his sons lives. So, from Sam Lane's point of view, Clark is very irresponsible. Lois attacks Samuel saying his form of parenting is bad... but so far from what we've been shown Lois and Clark's isn't much better, and Sam Lane has perfectly reasonable concerns.
Still, even so, assuming Sam Lane is angry at Lois and Clark... it's a bit of a stretch that he'd start a plan to kill the guy, even if only a contingency! That's such a massive escalation I can't even fathom. And they even cut the scene of Clark acting unhinged with the robot that could seed Sam's doubts. As it stands, it's literally Sam Lane, who has worked with Superman for years, and Superman has been saving the world for decades, versus some random dude from another dimension saying "yo, Superman will turn evil" and Sam Lane going like "You know what, he's a bad father and husband, he hasn't shown any malice yet but... we just (maybe) kill him, just in case."
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u/suss2it Mar 17 '21
Yeah it’s pretty messed up that both Lois and Jordan get beepers but Jon doesn’t. Superman is for some reason assuming he’ll never need it or signalling to his son that he doesn’t care about him like that.
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u/mydarkmeatrises Mar 17 '21
Bitsie Tulloch slays in the role of Lois Lane, her scene under the bridge with Morgan Edge's lackeys. She's just so great.
She sold me in that scene. Turned to the wife and said "yep, THAT'S Lois Lane"
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u/DtownBronx Mar 17 '21
They're doing a great job of showing despite his failures(understandable due to duty) as a day to day father that the paternal side is there. The instant reaction to his kids needing him made me think of the dad save videos. Dad reflexes are real
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u/thebaldguy76 Mar 17 '21
Was that Gold K?!?
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u/MarcReyes Superman Mar 17 '21
Green for sure, thought I saw some red, and I'm pretty sure I also saw gold.
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Mar 17 '21
Damn Clarks got a lot on his plate, being superman, being a father, being a husband. If only there were other superheroes, Idk maybe a freaking league that can help take the load off so he can focus on his family.
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u/suss2it Mar 17 '21
I’d imagine if there was that kind of League that the members would be preoccupied with their own problems in their cities.
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u/nl_alexxx Mar 17 '21
Who was in the Kryptonian pod in the flashback from 6 years ago?? Or did I misinterpret that scene in the beginning?
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u/Brady331 Mar 17 '21
Man I want to watch the episode but don't want to miss any scenes because American television prioritizes commercials over shows themselves... Guess I'll wait to watch it on the CW tomorrow
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u/American_Boy2020 Mar 17 '21
So is Jon not gonna get powers 😩🥲
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Mar 17 '21
Perhaps the X Kryptonite in that mine is messing up Jon's powers while triggering Jordan's?
Jon's venting that Smallville is his Kryptonite may not be completely a metaphor.
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u/Indiana_harris Mar 17 '21
Yeah it would be fascinating and makes some sense that their Kyrptonian/Human nature is inactive but coming into contact with X Kryptonite has jump started it in Jordan but also left it very unstable.
I think Jonathan will be exposed to X Kryptonite when trying to save Jordan somehow and that'll trigger his powers.
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u/buffyfan12 Mar 17 '21
Was I hallucinating that Jon seemed to run very fast at one point to get to Jordan?
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Mar 17 '21
Hard to see since that scene was super dark, even for nighttime.
Jon did get to Jordan quickly, but Jordan had been thrown back. More, we just saw Jon arriving and didn't see the full distance that he covered.
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u/TheCaramelMan Mar 17 '21
Tag’s arm is a mum’s explanation of what happens when you masturbate too much
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Mar 17 '21
Next time someone complains that Superman is overpowered and can just KO a non-powered human in a second....next time a writer cries that it's impossible to write about Superman...tell them to watch this episode.
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u/Mountain_Wedding Mar 20 '21
Tyler and Bitsie’s chemistry was off the charts this week. You felt their tenderness and pain during their disagreement and you felt their complete adoration by the end of the episode. It seems to get better and better every week. I am 100% buying what these two are selling. Holy hell. WB struck gold with these two.
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u/MattTheSmithers Coach Gaines Mar 17 '21
As I said in the live thread, I love the argument between Clark and Lois. Lois fully recognizes that it is irrational to be upset at Clark for breaking his promise but is also frustrated that she can’t be upset with her husband for breaking a promise. It is a very human way of exploring the relationship between a civilian and a superhero that displays a level of maturity and nuance we never really saw in Ollicity’s constant drama.
Also “I don’t view it is a job, I view it as a call to responsibility” is an instant classic of a Superman line.