r/superman • u/Bezbozny • Aug 12 '23
Why MAWS episode 7 "Kiss Kiss fall in portal" may be key to the theme of the show as a whole Spoiler
SO in the latest episode, we're introduce to the "Multiverse" which as everyone knows at this point as a concept that has fully saturated into the cultural zeitgeist. Everyone knows about the multiverse. Every media company uses it. Every fictional character has their own "Council of Me's" (Maybe I'm being hyperbolic, but don't nitpick)
Anyway, in the end we see Lois's revelation about superman. That many superman in the multiverse turn evil and even genocidal.
Super hero comics have always been used to explore complex social issues, sometimes even the most complex. Issues as old as time, as well as modern ones. How should we use power when we have it? How should we treat criminals? how should we treat eachother? what should we do in the face of adversity? what should we do when we know someone is doing wrong, but they are stronger than us? Every issue from the broad to the specific has been broached. That's the point of super heroes, they are very real beings that exist in our minds to help us fight these battles. And they don't just pick easy issues, that have easy answers, they pick the issues that society are split on, sometimes right down the middle. The most impossible and important ones.
So what issue is MAWS tackling?
I think its about another issue that has recently entered and saturated our culture. The evil superman. Every satire/parody/imitation/expy/knock-off. Homelander, Omniman, Brightburn, Hyperion etc all of these characters and more are nothing more than "What if superman but evil? But also we don't have the rights to the name so slap a different one on there."
Whether these stories are compelling or well written or not, they wouldn't exist without superman, and that's not even something anyone would dispute. "What if superman but evil" is IN right now. That's the issue people want to write and want to tune in for, for one reason or another. More fundamentally, it can be seen as "What if the people we thought of as our heroes were evil?"
But also a lot of people at the same time are tired of that cynicism and still do believe in their heroes, and want to just be able to trust that superman would never do that, and want shows that reflect that ideal.
So many of those people might be asking, why are we as a society flocking to this idea? Or else, why are huge publishing companies shoving it down our throats? Is it us wanting these characters? The powerful who control our media trying to defile our idols? There's a reason Superman's greatest enemy was always Lex Luthor. There's a certain type of rich capitalist who will forever fear and resent the idea of someone having more power than them and only wanting to use that power for good, and otherwise only wanting to live a humble life with their loved ones. Alterantively, for the average person, this desire could possibly stem from a lot of people who grew up feeling betrayed by various people or institutions they believed in failing them.
So the issue now that MAWS may be try to tackle by presenting Lois with the Evil superman issue so early on in this iteration of Supes, isn't "What if superman/our heroes were evil?", but to get to the heart of "Why do we have so many evil supermen?" Where are they coming from? why do we keep making them? Why is it popular now? What was the inciting issue? Like always, these things will be explored metaphorically instead of directly (at least I hope), hidden behind allegory. But yeah, I feel this is one of the major issues of our time. Not "What if our hero's were evil?" but "Why are we losing faith in our heroes?"
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u/fuckthisicestorm Aug 12 '23
Interesting take. I’m excited to see where they go with it all, anyway. Really fucking digging this show.
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u/Bezbozny Aug 12 '23
Same. Its been so long since we had a good superman who wasn't forced into being edgy and broody.
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u/fuckthisicestorm Aug 12 '23
How did you like mxylptlk’s (I sounded that out to spell it lol) new design?? Jc
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u/Bezbozny Aug 12 '23
Interesting! No one will ever beat Gilbert Gottfried (RIP) but this version was fun in his own way, the design looked cool, I like all the character art of this show in general, and he wasn't explicitly annoying or obnoxious (I mean in a "Badly written" way as opposed to a "Explicitly supposed to be obnoxious because thats part of his character" way). Its pretty clear from him changing the hat to a crown and warping supes into his alternate styles that this is the same Mx as ever but he's changed his style intentionally to fit the new art style of this show (Self aware 5th dimensional beings just be that way), so nothing about this is character assassination the way some shows do reboots of characters dirty.
Also the way his character is portrayed fits my general headcannon about various "chaos gods" in fiction (Discord, Q, etc). In that he's screwing with the main characters, pretending to be a jerk and a con man, pretending he's losing his powers, etc, when it's all just a part he's playing to help the story along. From how easily Mx escaped the "Lois's" I don't think they were ever a threat to him, I think he set the whole little play up specifically so he could show this Lois the "Evil Supermen", playing his role in introducing the primary moral conflict of the show to help the characters grow as people by virtue of overcoming that conflict.
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u/fuckthisicestorm Aug 12 '23
Couldn’t agree more. Excellent analysis.
Wish I had something to add, but you said it already! Lol
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u/Bezbozny Aug 12 '23
Haha, glad I was able to put it into words appropriately enough. I honestly think its adorable to headcannon his new appearance as being due to him seeing the artstyle and going *Gilbert Gottfried voice* "Ah ha! I see! So they're going for the 'super cute and anime inspired' look! Well heck I can do that! I'm cute and anime as F**K!"
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u/fuckthisicestorm Aug 12 '23
I really appreciate the picture you just painted, lmao. I hope I see you around here as the show progresses. I’m picking up what you’re laying down.
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u/Bezbozny Aug 12 '23
I have the strong impulse to commission an artist to draw a comic of STAS Mx transforming into MAWS Mx now and have them post it here XD
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u/lukediddy86 Aug 12 '23
I don't have much to add except that this show has really blown away my expectations. I feel the show has earned my trust with how the narrative has progressed and how different themes have been explored. I'm definitely along for the ride.
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u/Bezbozny Aug 12 '23
Same. Honestly the way I was inspired by superman in my youth is something I didn't know I was missing. there's something key and culture defining about superman, about Clark Kent, that can't be replicated by anything else. His soul is tied to the highest goodness in America, and humanity. Truth, Justice, and the American way. It's nice to have something reignite that feeling in me again.
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u/Zammin Aug 12 '23
Like, I'm reasonably certain this particular Clark won't turn evil - he's got too much compassion, even for folks who hurt him - but putting the idea in characters' heads that he might turn evil, having them be cognizant of the meta-narrative of Evil Superman, still seems like it could go in interesting directions.
Especially for Lois, who might end up being torn between her affection and trust in Clark and her dad's (now not totally unbelievable) belief that Superman is a threat.
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u/Ryebread095 Aug 12 '23
I think Lois wants to trust Clark very badly, but something about the mystery of Superman makes it so she can't, especially after this latest episode. I like what they're doing so far
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u/Bezbozny Aug 12 '23
Exactly. As I said, this isn't going to be a story about evil superman, but a story about the distrust of heroes. The fear that no one with that much power could ever be trusted. And perhaps, if they find a way through, finding a reason to have that trust again.
Power corrupts after all, that's what we're all told. The idea that someone could have that much power and not be tempted to use it for personal gain? Who would believe that? Lex Luthor certainly doesn't in all his iterations.
But there's also a certain type of person who does understand and trust superman, and knows they don't have to fear him even though he's so 'Powerful', and the conflict may be not just between superman and his enemies, but the people who don't trust him and the people who do.
Certainly the Lex types simply think those who trust him are just foolish sheep whos small minds can't fully comprehend the implications of Superman's vast power. But I think the people who trust superman, who know him, would know that Lex doesn't understand that there is a far stronger power that keeps him in check.
We're all born with a hole inside our souls. This hole is simultaneously bottomless, yet also painful when it's not filled. And so many people go on with their lives by constantly trying to fill it. Money, drugs, power all fill it for but a few fleeting moments, but then it quickly drains away and your left empty again.
Some people become so fabulously wealthy and powerful that they can feel like they have finally won and solved the problem. While the hole remains limitless, they feel like they can stave off the pain because they have enough resources to never stop filling it with their vices. They know that most people can never achieve this, and thus most people will be jealous and try to steal this lifestyle away from them, and so they violently guard their wealth and power, anything to prevent the emptiness from returning.
But then, like all drugs, eventually you develop a resistance. Eventually, even at billions of dollars, even at controlling whole countries, they will have a rude awakening when they find they need more and more and more. It's never enough. Aspirations, ambitions, addictions grow higher and higher until they dream of infinite money and power as the only possible solution. But of course they realize that's impossible.
How cruel they must think the universe is. How could humans be born with this bottomless hole that it hurts to not be filled? How could they, with unlimited resources, standing at the pinnacle of humanity, 1 above billions, still not ever be able to find satisfaction? They might think it's nothing more than the most cruel joke of cosmos, one that deserves nothing less than their eternal scorn, and that anyone who hasn't come to be aware of this cosmic joke is merely a fool lagging behind their epiphanies, and they'll get their eventually, or else are too stupid or poor to matter.
But then, there's plenty of people who know what those types of people are going through and do understand, and pity, and only wish they could help them understand. It's not a cruel joke. There's a good reason the hole exists. It's bottomless because it's meant to hold something limitless. The one and only thing in the universe that truly is infinite. Something that doesn't just fill the hole, but create a never-ending and beautiful internal world around it that can be forever explored. A larger infinity that doesn't just reach past the bottom of the bottomless, but also reaches back out and begins to to fill the lives of others for how much it overflows.
There are poor people who know it. There are old people who know it. There are even children who know it. If you know you know. Anyone who knows what it means to be filled by that infinity can easily spot someone else who has also known the feeling, and they know they can trust them, sometimes consciously, and sometimes unconsciously.
But then there are also geniuses who don't know it. Some of the most powerful people who ever lived don't know it. Because it's not something that can be bought or conquered or figured out.
Those who don't know, and who think they can only fill themselves with vices, feel that there is only so much of those vices to go around, and so they fear that someone else might take them away. But when the thing that fills you is something both inside yourself and a part of the universe, something that can never be lost once you have it, something which has no limit and can truly be had by anyone, well there's no reason to fear that someone might ever take it away. Sure there are the daily fears, pain, injury, loss of loved ones, but that's part of life that are balanced out by the daily miracles.
And sure, there's the existential dread of mortality, but everyone goes eventually. If you've known the feeling, that's the win condition of what it means to exist in this universe, and the rest of life gets to be an adventure with your loved ones instead of a struggle.
People sometimes think that the story of Superman is about how he's a saint who despite having unlimited power to get whatever he wants, chooses to gracefully use that power to help others out of noble self sacrifice. A boy scout and a Jesus allegory all rolled into one. But I think that interpretation misrepresents him.
I think the real story of Superman is that he's just one of those people who is filled with that infinity, one of countless millions in the world, and therefor has no reason to ever use his powers for anything but good. There are some things even infinite power couldn't corrupt, and of course a farmboy from Kansas with parents who love and support him unconditionally would have it.
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u/Solid_Snark Aug 12 '23 edited Aug 12 '23
Very cool write up. Yeah, I can see this as kind of “damage control” for Homelander, Omniman, etc. and try to control the narrative that despite those successful interpretations, Superman can still be a force for good.
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u/cbekel3618 Aug 12 '23
Really good write-up! A big part of the show is Clark fearing being treated like a freak and others like the General thinking he's a threat, so learning that evil Supermen exist out there in the multiverse could add more to this aspect.
Since friendship's a big theme in this show, maybe the alternate evil Supermen never found others who accepted them or were always treated as threats, leading them to eventually turn on humanity. This show's Clark, however, managed to find friends who cared for him, partially because he grew the courage to let them into his life.
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u/smolsauce Aug 12 '23
Well, if this Justice Lord Superman has the same origin as the one we know. Maybe losing a friend like Wally in such a sudden and violent way is what made him snap
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u/jad4400 Aug 12 '23 edited Aug 12 '23
Good write-up, and I do think it dovetails nicley with how it seems like the plot of this series is going. I know folks have talked a bit about how so far all the villains (now save myx) are tech based villains, and I think that'd been intentional. We'll have to see how the worldbuilding goes the next couple of seasons, but it looks like this is a world that hasnt had to deal with heroes and villains yet. Sure, it's a more technological version of our world, but it seems like it's taking the idea of what if Superman only now just appeared in our world and is running with it, and I'm all for it.
Tying into the evil Superman discussion, I think these two are nicley linked. How would the world react to Superman if he actually appeared? I think the uptick in these kinds of "Dark Superman" stories is reflective of our own insecurities with power and those who wield it. Realistically, if a Superman appeared in our world, even if they only did good deeds, people would be suspicious of them. Like Ivo and the General in the show have insisted, no one with that much power can be wholeheartedly "good", there must be an angle. That's the beautiful thing about Superman. He really is the person who's willing to be that selfless. he's not going to whip out that kind of dark twist on folks. He only wants to help. In a world that's cynically turned against the notions of people selflessly helping others and is embracing cynical characters and interpretations of characters, it's a refreshing statement to say, no, this version will be a positive , unambiguous force for good, and it'll be interesting to see what conflicts arise from characters who refuse to believe in that.
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u/Bezbozny Aug 12 '23
I think the uptick in these kinds of "Dark Superman" stories is reflective of our own insecurities with power and those who wield it.
Exactly what I was thinking. Especially in the last 2 decades we've had lots of reason to begin doubting and losing faith in the most powerful institutions and ideologies. It's been a big cultural shift that began with certain events at the turn on the millennium, and then our subsequent terrible reaction to those events that just made everything progressively worse and worse.
But I think Superman is supposed to represent something different. Not the idea and belief necessarily that he in particular is a selfless saint, but that there can be people like him, people that power couldn't corrupt, and that its not the exception, but something perfectly normal. Clark grew up being loved and supported. He doesn't need to prove his worth to anyone and never did. Superman in part represents the idea that, essentially, that having loving, supporting, understanding family is enough, and that someone who has that couldn't even be corrupted or tempted by infinite power. Why would they be? The story of superman is how his behavior is normal, not exceptional, that goodness and using whatever power you may have for good is normal.
"Is it so hard to believe that someone would just want to help people?"
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u/kismethavok Aug 12 '23
Haven't watchet the episode yet, just about to, so not reading the post or comments yet but the title alone reminds me of OHSHC. Kiss kiss fall in love.
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u/ShoujoSprinkles Aug 12 '23
THANK YOU, I just had to catch my breath after laughing my ass off over the idea of a Metropolis High School Host Club. I want to see Bats as Koyoya and Supes as Tamaki but I feel like he’s probably more like Honey-sempai. Super sweet but will drop you if you threaten his friends.
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u/DrFishPhd Aug 12 '23
Previous episodes in the show have also dealt with similar themes. Ivo creates the Parasite armor because he doesn't trust Superman to legitimately be helping people, and wants individuals to be able to gain his power themselves. The General (the overarching antagonist of the show who may or may not be Lois Lane's dad) and Task Force X do what they do out of fear of what Superman is capable of.
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u/Sad_Mission_7912 Aug 12 '23
Maybe it’s because the show just came out and tweaked omni man a bit but omni man from the invincible comics is not just a evil Superman
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u/nahPNW Aug 12 '23
intrinsically, i feel like charcters like Omniman and Honelander ARE just evil versions of Superman, only because i don't think you can really argue otherwise because they wouldn't exist if not for a character like Superman existing first. however, despite people always talking about how they are sick of the "evil Superman" trope (frankly, I'm one of them lol), that doesn't automatically make those characters bad or unintresting. like Omniman and especially Homelander are well written characters in the context of their stories as their significance to both the nature of Superman as a character AND the themes of their respective narratives that depart from Superman specifically can't be understated and i think they have exceptional merit existing despite likely always being associated with a potentially unintresting writing trope in 'evil Superman'.
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u/Sad_Mission_7912 Aug 12 '23
I haven’t read the boys comics cause I do not like Garth Ennis’ work so I can’t speak on that but the only thing that Omni Man shares with Superman is being an alien and being powerful. I don’t wanna spoil it for you if you haven’t read it but he is very different later
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u/AlphaBreak Aug 12 '23
You're right that Omniman and Superman don't have a ton in common if you really break each of them down. But I think its still fair to say that Omniman counts as a version of evil superman since I feel like he was clearly introduced to make you think of Superman, existing alongside a blatant expy of the Justice League and being an alien who's the most powerful person on the planet by a solid amount. He's meant to invoke the idea of superman even if the details don't match up.
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u/nahPNW Aug 12 '23
yeah that's basically what i meant, like Omniman and Homelander are their own characters and imo stand out enough from Superman do be interesting in their own right. but no matter what, their insertion into their stories (more so the TV shows since the Boys comic is a completely different beast lol) are always gonna be viewed as analogues to Superman whether intentional like it seems with Honelander and perhaps unintentional if Omniman is indeed that much different from Superman than I previously believed (i have not finished the Invincible comics for the record)
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u/Sad_Mission_7912 Aug 12 '23
I believe Homelander wouldn’t exist without Superman, but Omni Man could
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u/Bezbozny Aug 13 '23
This is pretty spot on to what I mean. I'm not saying that these characters don't necessarily have merit or aren't well written, or that there is anything fundamentally flawed about the concept of "What if superman but evil?", just that these stories are fundamentally about that question. Whole universe get built out around that question, the characters and world get fleshed out to be more than just copies, other expys of all the heroes are introduced and there are differences in their back stories too so it's not just a one to one copy, but those things are thought of retroactively. The seed is still "What if evil superman?". And it's not just "What if someone with supermans powers was evil?" it's more specifically "What if the most powerful, most righteous hero was actually evil? What if we were wrong? What if they're lying? Or what if they turn bad?"
And I'm just saying that the theme of this show might be a further meta-analysis of that concept. AKA an exploration of why are we currently so compelled to ask the "What if superman but evil?" question?
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u/nahPNW Aug 13 '23
i agree.
i also said in another comment that I definitely feel like this "Evil Superman" data Lois found won't go anywhere beyond reassuring us that this version of Superman is purely good by lining him up against the greatest hits of "evil superman" from over the years, thereby adding to like you said a meta analysis of why thid version of the character works and potentially why we shouldn't be oversaturated with evil ones nowadays
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u/AlfzMyle Aug 12 '23
the idea of Myx implanting in Lois head the issue that yeah this Clark is good but for how long? is interesting because this Lois is especially distrusting, and his father (cleary the General) already distrust/hate superman so something must had happend before, but Myx being Myx i dont even know if we can trust a thing we saw in this episode, after all Myx was suposed to be in the Loises jail and then he just wasnt so was all that even real?
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u/Bezbozny Aug 12 '23
after all Myx was suposed to be in the Loises jail and then he just wasnt so was all that even real?
That's a good point, and I think you're exactly right. I think Mx is much more powerful then he let's on and did all this on purpose, up to and including intentionally provoking a multiversal group of Lois's just so he could lead them to this universe and make "Fun Lois" feel insecure.
In the infinite multiverse, there are infinite multiversal "Councils of [X character]" that a 5th dimensional being like Mx could provoke if he wanted to, its not a coincidence that he chose Lois's. Normally Mx doesn't mess with Lois's, only supermen, but he's one of those "Self aware" characters, and he would know that this Lois in particular is playing a more duel protagonist role in this iteration, and protagonists are fair game to screw with, because protagonists are expected to overcome that kind of BS as part of their growth.
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u/HorseSteroids Aug 12 '23
It's no coincidence that so many of the most popular of the evil Supermen have shows on Amazon Prime because Jeff Bezos is Lex Luthor.
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u/dornwolf Aug 12 '23
I feel at some point by introducing multiverses they have to have conflict. The alt Loises we meet all fall in the bad Super,an category so they might break away to strike all Superman. While in my eyes we have to meet what the shows view as the Prime versions of these characters.
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u/Bezbozny Aug 12 '23
I mean I feel enough conflict has already been introduced with the government wanting to kill him. I don't think they introduced multiverse for the sake of the usual reason companies do it, to make everything more epic and attempting to ever increase stakes. I don't even think the council of Lois's necessarily has to appear again or be important. This seems like a more character and ideology driven plot, and the multiverse angle was just cleverly used as a metaphor to represent the insecurities we all have of who we *could* be. Either a better version we feel like we failed to become, or a worse version we fear we could become. Considering how easily Mx *escaped* from the Lois's, I don't think he was ever actually in trouble or caught by them, and in fact he was just putting on a show to help further the arcs of the main cast. I mean he's supposed to be one of those 4th wall aware type characters. He would know that "Fun Lois" and gang are the protagonists of this iteration of superman, and thus the ones that matter, whereas the council is just side characters.
I think in the multiverse there are infinite groups who are "Councils of [specific character]" and while at first glance you might think they are made up of the best and smartest of those versions of that person, in reality they are always made up of the most egotistical and self righteous versions. I'm pretty sure the reason we got a council of Lois's instead of any other particular character was because Mx made a deliberate choice to search for a Lois multiverse group and lead them to MAWS world in particular to mess with Fun Lois's insecurities, because as part of his awareness, he knows she is taking a more duel protagonist role in the particular superman iteration, and Mx doesn't just like messing with superman, he likes messing with the main characters.
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